Background  of the philosophic community project:

(definition of PHILOSOPHIC in  Google search:
"phil·o·soph·i·cal  also phil·o·soph·ic, adj.)
1. Of, relating to, or based on a system of philosophy.
2. Characteristic of a philosopher, as in equanimity, enlightenment, and wisdom.)






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With the permission of Klara radio,
Naturestuduio has placed here  a link to Klara Continuo.
Maybe there is some beautiful music playing now.
If not, try later.
click here:
http://internetradio.vrt.be/radiospeler/v2_prod/wmp.html?qsbrand=32


The voice of eternal love music project
Hate is the false prophet, love is the true master.
There is no holy ground which has been won by cruel violence and hate.

Holy is the love and understanding between all people.


If a spirit  would rather promote violence and war ( Jihad), condemning honest critic, honest discussion and questioning (unbelief), it cannot be  truly intelligent.

It cannot be of love.
It cannot bring true peace to all people on the Earth.


Is it too dangerous to stand beside someone who says this ?
Here is a list of wives of Mohammed by the Muslim scholar Ali Dashti. He probably based much of this on an earlier list in the History of al-Tabari vol.9 p.126-241. It should be mentioned that scholars and Hadiths are not entirely agreed on the wives of Mohammed. For example some hadiths (not Bukhari or Sahih Muslim) mention a couple of wives of Mohammed that he divorced, and these are not shown here. Nonetheless, Ali Dashti's list, while perhaps not entirely agreed upon as being comprehensive, shows many of the wives. Following this is the evidence from the hadiths, independent of Ali Dashti, for these relationships.
1. Khadija/Khadijah bint Khuwailid/Khywaylid - died first
2. Sauda/Sawda bint Zam'a
3. 'Aisha/Aesha/'A'ishah - 8 to 9 yrs old, 2nd wife
   'Aisha's Slaves
   'Aisha and the Battle of the Camel
4. Omm/'Umm Salama/Salamah
5. Hafsa/Hafsah
6. Zaynab/Zainab of Jahsh
7. Juwairiya/Jowayriya bint Harith (captive)

9. Safiya/Safiyya bint Huyai/Huyayy bint Akhtab (captive)
10. Maymuna/Maimuna of Hareth
11. Fatima/Fatema/Fatimah (briefly)
12. Hend/Hind (widow)
13. Asma of Saba (Sana bint Asma')
14. Zaynab of Khozayma
15. Habla?
16. Divorced Asma of Noman / bint al-Nu'man
¾slaves / concubines ¾
17. Mary the Copt/Christian
18. Rayhana/Raihana/Rayhanah bint Zayd/Zaid
¾uncertain relationship -
19. Divorced Omm Sharik
20. Maymuna/Maimuna (slave girl?)
21. Zaynab/Zainab the third?
22. Khawla / Khawlah
23. Divorced Mulaykah bint Dawud
24. Divorced al-Shanba' bint 'Amr
25. Divorced al-'Aliyyah
26. Divorced 'Amrah bint Yazid
27. Divorced an Unnamed Woman
28. Qutaylah bint Qays (died right away)
29. Sana bint Sufyan
30. Sharaf bint Khalifah
31. Women of Mohammed's Right Hand
Mohammed Turned Some Women Down
Some Women Turned Mohammed Down
¾ Ali Dashti missed at least nine possible other wives.
Mohammed married 15 women and consummated his marriages with 13. (al-Tabari vol.9 p.126-127)
http://www.muslimhope.com/WhyDidMohammedGetSoManyWives.htm

FROM GERALDINE TO ERCI:
TO HAVE ALL THESE WOMEN IS MAYBE A GOOD REASON FOR SOME MEN TO FIGHT AND KILL FOR ALLAH?
To the EGO, as to your Prophet, (see the example of Gaddafi)
you cannot be a friend of someone who sees your  faults.
You have to destroy them. Your tradition says "Slay the enemy where you find him" (Surah 9.92).
I say: destroy the evil in people through awareness.
Violence is the way of brutality.

If a spirit  would rather promote violence and war ( Jihad),
condemning honest critic, honest discussion and questioning (unbelief),
it cannot be  truly intelligent.
It cannot be of love.
It cannot bring true peace to all people on the Earth.


Is it too dangerous to stand beside someone who says this ?


van Chapman
Philosophic community Project
www.naturestudio.net
Latest exchange WITH A MUSLIM IN GENT

PLEASE NEVER MIND THE SPELLING ENGLISH FAULTS

22 March 2011


There is no difference between  Mohammed’s Koran telling you to kill Muslims who renegade the Islam,  and Mafia gangs telling you, once you have been a member, that they will kill you if you renegate their brutal gang...

in both cases there is brutal tyranny and that is not love.

I believe in what makes sense, no matter who said it, You like all believers believe in someone even  if that one make no sense,

And in that way you do not differ from many Jews and Christians your Koran tells you not to be a friend of.

And most believers  believe even in that what  makes no sense out of fear of others or death or hell.

(In your book of the history of Mohammed the author pretends Mohammed will tell you what is the word of God and what not. what is good and what is bad. To me this is bad: If a God makes no sense in rather punishing his creatures  for all eternity than to give them insight and wisdom,  it is the creation of man's unforgiving irrational hate.)

I believe in what makes sense, and it can be Jesus or your Mohammed, but do not tell me I have to believe it because it is written or because Jesus or Mohammed has said it, because I will not believe point other line.

Sorry Erci, but So long as you or another comes to me with your fanaticism or irrational belief, they will hear me speak of reason and love.

Have a good day.

G





WORLD News.

LIBYA and the historic nonsense of tyranny.
Why  make War in place of voting?



Why did Gaddafi  made war in the place of having dialogue with the protesters??

Why is it that in their speeches, both Gaddafi as the rebels  said they are martyrs and send each other to hell?
Because where unquestionable authority and unquestionable submission is part of a culture,
when protest arises,  not dialogue, but brutal repression and war, Jihad, is the option.

From both sides in the  revolutions in the Arab lands as between
Shia and Sunni, they shout 'Allah is the Greatest' and they
murder each other believing themselves to be heroes and sending
each other to Hell (!!! )
It is awareness what destroys the evil in people.
Not violence and  brutality.

  (Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide. And that is good).











THE FOLLOWING DIALOGUE HAS NOT BEEN EDITED AND CAN BE VERY  LONG AND BORING,  NOT ONLY FOR THE LANGUAGE DEFICIENCY IN THESE E MAILS, BUT  BECAUSE THIS MUSLIM SIMPLY CANNOT REASON WITH HIS BELIEF. BUT IT MAY BRING A LIGHT ANYWAY IN THE DARKNESS OF  MINDS LIKE HIS.




Hate is the false prophet,

love is the true master.

There is no holy ground which has been won by cruel violence and hate.

Holy is the love and understanding between all people.





WORLD News.



THE PHILOSOPHIC COMMUNITY PROJECTS

We saw a documentary film on Canvas TV
on the 25 July 2010
about the training of young Jews from around the World in Israel
to support the racistic war against Arabs and Palestinians
over a land they have taken from them by military force.
How does a philosophical mind relate to the
Israeli -Palestinian question,  for example?

Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide.
This is good. But do they question the tyranny in their prophet or Koran??
Muslim suicide bombers not only kill themselves alone but also innocent people indiscriminately.
Is this the work  of true faith or pure irrational hate or despair?



Koran: “Slay the enemy where you find him" (Surah 9.92).
If by 'enemy' in the Koran it is meant  those who say: quote  Luke 6:[27]: " Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."), then atheists, Christians, or Hindus or Buddhists who will not kill another for a difference of belief, nor even a sheep, if they are vegetarians,  then Mohammed's  version of God is unacceptable and he, is a false prophet..

As I Krishnamurti said, the God of a Petty mind is a petty God.




van Chapman       
Philosophic Community Projects
www.naturestudio.net

The best wishes to all.

www.naturestudio.net
DIALOGUE WITH A MUSLIM
For a peaceful intelligent solution of terrorism



























"Terrorists are not afraid of bombs, they are afraid of questions."
from a dialogue with a muslim

***
True angels destroy not men, but the falseness in them
What I try to say to this Muslim is that one does not enlighten someone by cutting off his head.


Part of a long dialogue (at least since 2003 )

between van Chapman (Geraldine) and a Muslim I will call  Erci



THE FOLLOWING DIALOGUE HAS NOT BEEN PROPERLY EDITED AN CAN BE VERY  LONG AND BORING,  NOT ONLY FOR THE LANGUAGE DEFICIENCY IN THESE E MAILS, BUT  BECAUSE THIS MUSLIM SIMPLY CANNOT REASON WITH HIS BELIEF. BUT IT MAY BRING A LIGHT ANYWAY IN THE DARKNESS OF  MINDS LIKE HIS.


Commentaries are  based on this dialogue, most of which was previously published on this web site.


WHO IS THROWING PEARLS TO THE SWINES













Share Your Thoughts: 
Should Capital Punishment be Abolished?

TheReligionofPeace.com
Islamic Terror Attacks on Christians
(Since 9/11)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/christianattacks.htm


Philosophic Community Project.
by van Chapman:

How can you ever know if another is happy with you if you keep'm in a cage?
It is not faith, but fear which keeps one encaging others, or being encaged.

He who would kill one for leaving  him, belongs to a mafia, not a religion.

Open question: -Is this the USA, is this the Islam, is this your country, is this you?



year 2014





?End of a long attempt of a dialogue with a fanatic Muslim

No end.
This is like the Tale of a 1001 nights !!!



EXTRACT FROM 
DIALOGUE WITH A (FANATC MUSLIM ) ERCI
(Text Revised 2014)

http://www.naturestudio.net/love_or_belief.html

www.naturestudio.net
DIALOGUE WITH A MUSLIM
For a peaceful intelligent solution of Terrorism

Dear believer, if you kill the ignorance, the ignorant is no more!
Or would rather perpetuate ignorance?

Why perpetuate war, perpetuate ignorance?

Belief is not about clarity.



This was my conclusion after my dialogues with Muslims about Mohammed:

Mohammed called unbelievers hypocrites.
He could have clarified it,
if someone questioned him,
if someone questioned his belief,
But instead, he ordered
those who questioned him, those who disbelieved him
to be killed!

He had to kill them, his questioners,
not to admit his weaknesses and crimes.

He ordered killing others with stones 
for the same things
he justified himself to do.
Calling his unbelievers hypocrites!

The real hypocrites are those who rather kill than enlighten.
kill those who question, 
kill those who leave them,
kill unbelievers.
perpetuating
war on undesrtanding,
war on sincerity,
war on love,
war on justice
war on and truth,
perpetuating ignorance
for the sake of power,
perpetuating hate
in the name of wisdom, of God,

Perpetuating war in name of peace!

Unbelievers are not the hypocrites,
if all they want is to see the truth-

the true hypocrites are those
demanding unquestionable belief,
denying friendship and understanding
for the sake of belief.
blind obedience even in crimes
against humanity!


  Holy war? -Combat falsehood, not those who are false !
That is what saviours do, true fathers & mothers of mankind!

Rather than (Koran) :'kill unbelievers wherever you find them' ,
kill falsehood , wherever you find it - even in your holy books!

I ask Obama how can he reconcile civil freedom and human rights with its antithesis, the Islam ?
Will he say- 'Yes we can?'
No. Only fearless and total sincerity can solve this impasse. By turning a 'politically correct' blind eye to Islam, Obama cannot solve the ISIS problem at its root, in the consciousness.
Only pass the problem on to another...

Whether it is the Islamic State or the United States, the problem with anyone, any state, starts when they  forsake and prohibit self-critic honesty. ( turning an 'Islamic correct' or 'politically correct-blind eye' to their own incoherence). Incoherence with what we know is the way of love and love's Justice, simply out of self interests- that is when a religion becomes terrorism, and a state stops the fair peace process to become a tyrannical invading force! Dear Muslims and dear Mr. President, understand this, for the best of all.




van Chapman (van_chapman) | Twitter
The latest Tweets from van Chapman (van_chapman). True angels destroy not men, but the falseness in them...


http://www.naturestudio.net/love_or_belief.html



THEY think their barbaric law of murdering for a belief, lapidating, decapitating, or crucifying for a belief will prevail over all other societies in world, (even above those who (like  followers of Gandhi or Buddhists (non believers for the Islam)
who will never murder or crucify others, who are truly compassionate.



Philosophic Community Projects
www.naturestudio.net








van Chapman
Philosophic Community Project
-
Slavery has been abolished from US constitution.
  Can it be abolished in the Koran?
If not, my friend, change religion.



THEY think their barbaric law of murdering for a belief, lapidating, decapitating, or crucifying for a belief will prevail over all other societies in world, (even above those who (like  followers of Gandhi or Buddhists (non believers for the Islam)
who will never murder or crucify others, who are truly compassionate.


Listen to yourself:
Before you say I am sucking my thumb because there is no crucifying in the Koran.
as you denied the stoning in the Sharia (law).
When I show it to you, where it is written (about crucifying in the Koran), you the say it is its right.

In China, where serious breaches on Human rights are a concern for the rest of the world,
I also MUST ALSO BELIEVE AND NOT CRITICISE THEIR COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT OR ELSE....
AND THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE PROTECTING CITIZENS.

BUT IF IT IS WRITTEN IN THE KORAN
(5:33) "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam" Koran . Will you simply say AMEN, "JA KNIKKEN".
(SO BE IT)?.
You NOW SAY -"Muslims have the right to (murder or crucify)  defend themselves, (their society)"

HOW CAN I MAKE YOUR PORTRAIT?
YOU FIRST LIKED THE PORTRAIT I MADE OF YOU,
THEN I MUST CHANGE THE EYES AND THE NOSE.

BUT YOU WILL NOT BE FILMED WHEN I WORK ON YOUR PORTRAIT AS I PROPOSED. 

YOU SAY YOU WILL BECOME A LAWYER IN BELGIUM SO I WILL ASK YOU, ON FILM, FOR THE PROOF,
  IF YOU WILL DEFEND THAT LAW OF CUTTING HANDS, MUTILATING, STONING OR CRUCIFYING FOR A BELIEF CALLED THE SHARIA.

WHERE IS YOUR REAL FACE ERCI?

You act like a doll, a puppet, not a true human being, thanks to your belief.

I will give you back the money you paid when I can. Sorry if I still cannot.

You can have the portrait for free.


Philosophic Community Projects
www.naturestudio.net








The return of the Portrait-
Philosophic Community Project

-Part of a long dialogue with a Muslim friend who will stay anonym.
Finally, I had the money to give back to Erci. Money he had paid me for the portrait I made of him.
I invited him in the courtyard. It was a sunny day in the garden full of flowers and brought him the money and the portrait also, which I said he could have, for free, if he wanted it.

The reason I returned the money he paid for the portrait, was that he did not like the eyes in them, demanding me that I change them and I denied to change anything by command.
(I would do it if he were able to assume publicly to be the one in our dialogues but he denied that...

While we both looked at the portrait in the garden, to my surprise, he said that his eyes in the portrait were good (!?) And asked if I had worked on them. I had not, and I told him so.

How can one explain this!? Now he changed his way of seeing, after all!

For the first time since I know him, he gave me a hug, and asked me to forgive him if he had hurt me.
This was beautiful from him! I told him: - Idem. I never want to hurt you.
-But you have been angry! He said.
-Yes, because you interrupted me...
He was in a hurry. On his way out, on the street, I asked him his meaning about the condemnation to death (by Sudanese authorities) of a Muslim woman for having married a Christian man- (the Meriam Yehya Ibrahim issue I mentioned before).

-I cannot defend Muslims who are not here... he said in a low voice...
-But it is international news! I protested.
Evading the subject, he started telling about some awful torture crimes, supposedly committed by " -Buddhists or those others'.
-Real Buddhists could not do that, I tried to tell him, as he went away along the side of the street. - -That is totally against Buddha's teachings.
He  kept walking and repeating from a distance: "-Be in peace,  while I repeated after him out loud :
- You can understand me!

So I write him:
-What can be the peace, dear Muslim, in this 'looking the other way'?
What is the peace, in refusing, like a partial lawyer, to see any unkindness, in your client, when in him there is murder?
What is the peace, my friend, in accusing of being violent, those (Buddhists) instead, whose teachings are so much kinder, compassionate towards all beings, whose wisdom would never kill others for,  nor enslave others to a belief?

Yes, you can understand me...do  not deny it.

van Chapman
Philosophic Community Project
-
Slavery has been abolished from US constitution.
  Can it be abolished in the Koran?
If not, my friend, change religion.











exchange

Mohammed could kill people who criticized him.
told to stone people to death when they broke his rules.

To the EGO, as to your belief, you cannot be a friend of someone and see their faults.
To the EGO, as to your Prophet, (see the example of Gaddafi) you cannot be a friend of someone who sees your  faults.
You have to destroy them. Your tradition says
"Slay the enemy where you find him" (Surah 9.92).

I say: destroy the evil in people through awareness.


I do not defend the Western nor the Eastern World. I am a friend of both when I see their faults.

It is obvious to me and to anyone that 'keeping appearances' the way you do even on behalf of a prophet,
or even God,  is not want to face what is.

Violence is the way of brutality.
Truly civilized and intelligent solutions for relationships break that cycle of violence.

Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide. And that is good.


*********************************



NOTE: NEVER MIND THE SPELLING MISTAKES

LAST EXCHANGE
MARCH 2011

DIALOGUE WITH A FANATIC MUSLIM



G Sent 13 Feb 2011
Subject: did you forget our appoitment today

Been making food for you, Ergan.
Did you forget our appointment today?
G

**
Erci Sent:  February 14, 2011
Subject: RE: did you forget our appointment today

dear Geraldine,Something important happend.
I tried to call you but your phone was always close.
Can you give me a number where i can reach you? Sorry
Rg.

***
G:- February 15, 2011
Subject: our appoitment
You may come next sunday at 2 pm if it suits you.
Hope I am really dear to you.
I trust you in the house and with my telephone.

20 Feb 2011 17:23:20 +0100
I asked you not come without an appointment.
Now you do not come when you make an appointment.

***
Erci sent February 20, 2011
Subject: RE: our appoitment
Geraldine, I totally forget it, what ever you say you are wright.
I want to apolegize for it.
Excuse me, i didnt check my agenda what about next week sunday?

***
.
G answers: 21 Feb 2011
Subject: Re: our appoitment- Philosophy in practice

Thanks for the honesty, Erci.
That is all that I need in our spiritual or philosophical relationship. I forgive you.
A love-based justice lawyer-judge promotes rehabilitation of people, not their destruction.
Promotes the awakening of consciousness of love and human rights,
rather than justification of with irrational murderous revenge slavery over people through marriage or belief .
C'est clair et simple!
If you want to be a lawyer in Europe, which shall you chose to follow?
The way of love-justice and rehabilitation in confession,
or the way of  'human property through belief or marriage'
and 'death penalty even in confession' power-loving Justice, of Mohammed's belief ?

You can say what you want, Erci, but according to the history of Muhammad's in hadith verbal accounts,
your prophet ordered people who confessed, to be stoned alive to death
(when breaking his obstinate 'property marriage'rules, though he could posses sexually many women, even married ones,
( if he killed the husband), and justify it). see the history below.
'It was standard practice, and made legal by Muhammad, to take as a "wife" in addition to captives, the wives of men killed in battle (or executed). On one occasion when Muhammad launched an attack on a Jewish tribe he personally witnessed their beheading and then took some of their widows to bed.' Semitic scholar and historian A.B. Davidson (a professor at New College, Edinburgh) recorded one such instance: "On one day he caused 800 Jews to be beheaded in cold blood, himself standing by and watching the butchery; and in the evening, to efface the unpleasant impression from his mind, and give a more happy turn to his ideas, he took home the wife of one of the murdered chiefs, and added her to his harem."Source: A.B. Davidson, Biblical and Literary Essays, ed. J.A. Peterson (London: Hodder & Stroughton, 1902), p. 228.'
' Bukhari 7:63:196 Narrated Abu Huraira: A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" He replied, "No." The Prophet then said (to his companions), "Go and stone him to death." The man was a married one. Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died.Sahih Bukhari 7:63:196'
..........................................................................................................................................................................................
  'A Muslim who commits acts of violence in jihad does so with the approval of Muhammad.'
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/news-jerry-falwell-mohammed.html
A lengthy passage from the Hadith, volume 1, book 1, chapter 1, shows that Muhammad himself
believed he was under demonic influence, but it notes that Muhammad's wife is the one who deemed his experience as "divine,".'  Quotes from:
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/news-jerry-falwell-mohammed.html
.....................................................................................................................................................................................
Commentary by van Chapman :
We read the News. Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide. Muslim suicide bombers
not only kills themselves but innocent people indiscriminately.
Is the work  of true faith or pure irrational hate or despair?

We read in the News: 'Churches and civil authorities hold accountable clergy members guilty of sexual abuse'.
However,  Muslim traditions justify the abuses paedophilia and the possession of children as wives
because Mohammed justified it to himself to marry a nine year old girl.
The Holy spirit would not have justified neither Moses nor Mohammed in violent bloody Jihad
they committed against those who did not believe them.
Anyone who commits acts of violence against others even in religious or territorial disputes,
does so without the approval of the Holy Spirit:
'Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you'. 'My kingdom is not of this world',
so why violate people and kill for terrestrial possessions?.
The Taliban will rather despise the evolution brought by Christ's forgiveness of sin to go back to the primitive
and barbarian anti human punishments of the Torah or the Sharia law.
Concerning terrorism and Islamic jihad, when the Sharia law promotes murder and torture as punishment,
torture, sword or fire or with simply spiritual irrationality and unquestionability, it is barbaric and inhuman violence.
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/news-jerry-falwell-mohammed.html


.***
Erci Sent  February 27, 2011
Subject: RE: our appoitment- Philosophy in practice.
Dear Geraldine,
its to small i cant read it. can you write it bigger.
Thank you

***

From: Erci Saturday, March 05, 2011
our appointment- Philosophy in practice.
Dear Geraldine, Can you give me the refference of that saying.
I mean who said that the Profeth Muhammed pbuh said that.
I need the reference, i cant discuss with you if its bases on thump sucking.
Otherwise it would be strong man argumentation.
You build something that there isin't, and you want me reply on that.
So what is the reference, in wich book is it written and wich diciple of the profphet pbuh has said it.
Thank you

***

G answers:
Thank you, Erci, for not responding with indignation, justifications and offence on
behalf of your prophet but in wanting to investigate the truth.
I am proud of you, even if for this alone.
Polygamy, Concubines, and Mistresses in Islam

“No one is allowed to wed more than four women, but he is permitted however,
in addition to them, to buy (women), as many as he wants.”

Here you will find some of the historical scandales of Mohammed estimated by scholars and the refferences:
http://www.internetparodies.org/muhammad.html

Here are som quotes from that:
HISTORICAL DATA ABOUT MUHAMMAD

* Mohammed is estimated by scholars to have had somewhere
between 15-25 wives. All agree that he had 9 wives at the time of his death
(5 more than the Quran permits for other Muslims)!

* He died at age 63 in the home of Aisha, his favorite wife,
and was buried on the spot where he died in Medina.

* Earlier, he fell in love with Zeinab, his cousin, and wife
of his adopted son Zeid. He then received a "revelation" from Allah that it
was permissible to marry the wife of an adopted son. Zeid divorced Zeinab
so that Mohammed could marry her.

Sources: Ernest Kellett, A Short History of Religions. New York: Books for
Libraries Press, 1971, P. 343, and Washington Irving, Life of Mahomet. New
York: Dutton & Sons, 1911, p. 231.

* On his deathbed, Mohammed said: "Do not fear those who
disbelieve, fear me" and called for the conquest of Christianity.
Source, Essad Bey, Mohammed. New York: Longmans, Green & Co., 1936, p.
330.------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marriage to Six-Year Old
In 624 Abu Bakr (Muhammad’s daily companion and one of his first believers
and successor of Muhammad) gave Muhammad his daughter Aisha when she was six years old,
although the actual marriage was not consummated until she was nine.
This fact is uncontested by all Muslim scholars and chroniclers without exception).
At the time of their marriage Muhammad was 54 years old (the age of her grandfather)
– a difference of 45 years in their ages.


Aisha herself testified to these facts: “The messenger of God betrothed me
when I was six years old and then married me when I was nine years old.”
Source: Sahih Muslim (by Imam al-Mawawy), vol. 3, p. 577.

Islamic law has codified this principle of non-consent for under-age women based on Muhammad’s precedent:

“A father may give consent to have his young virgin daughter married without obtaining her permission,
for she does not have a choice, exactly as Abu Bakr El Sadiq did to his daughter Aisha,
when she was six years old. He married her to the prophet Muhammad without her permission.”

Source: Ibn Hazam (acknowledged by all Muslims as one of the greatest scholars on Islamic Law)
in his al-Muhalla (“The Sweetened”). Vol. 6, part 9, pp. 458-460.

Abd El Schafi, author of Behind the Veil stated in response:
“These are cruel, hard words and iniquitous Islamic principles which the free human conscience
utterly rejects and detests because it is related to the most important subject in the girl’s life,
that is, her body and her future” (p. 83).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Polygamy, Concubines, and Mistresses in Islam

“No one is allowed to wed more than four women, but he is permitted however,
in addition to them, to buy (women), as many as he wants.”
Source: Ibn Hazam, vol. 6, part 9, pp. 441, 467.
However, exceptions were made for the Prophet and his successors:
Muhammad had 11 wives and an Egyptian concubine
Umar Ibn al-Khattab had 7 wives plus 2 maid-salves
Uthman Ibn Affan had 8 wives
Ali Ibn Abi Talib (cousin of Muhammad) married 10 women plus 10 concubines and maid-slaves for a total of 29
Al-Hasan Ibn Ali (grandson of Muhammad and called by the Prophet
“the master of the youth of Paradise”) married 70 women (and was said to sometimes divorce two women in a day!).
Sources: Biographies such as Ibn Kathir’s, Bidaya and the Nihaya, vol. 7 & 8, and Suyuti’s, Chonicles of the Caliphs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marriage to wives of men killed by Muslims, including the murder of Jews
It was standard practice, and made legal by Muhammad, to take as a “wife” in addition to captives,
the wives of men killed in battle (or executed). On one occasion when Muhammad launched an attack
on a Jewish tribe he personally witnessed their beheading and then took some of their widows to bed.
Semitic scholar and historian A.B. Davidson (a professor at New College, Edinburgh) recorded one such instance:

“On one day he caused 800 Jews to be beheaded in cold blood, himself standing by
and watching the butchery; and in the evening, to efface the unpleasant impression from his mind,
and give a more happy turn to his ideas, he took home the wife of one of the murdered chiefs, and added her to his harem.”

Source: A.B. Davidson, Biblical and Literary Essays, ed. J.A. Peterson
(London: Hodder & Stroughton, 1902), p. 228.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sexual License in Islam – The Temporary Contractual Marriage
According to all Muslim scholars (especially in Sahih Muslim) the temporary, contractual marriage
was made lawful by Muhammad simply to satisfy the sexual passions of his soldiers. The “marriage”
only had to last 3 days, after which the woman could be deserted and left without any rights.
Only the fact that it is temporary a “marriage” separates it from outright fornication and adultery
(forbidden in Islam), but there is practically no difference. It was practiced during the beginning of the Islamic
era (during the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Ibn Abu ‘Umar) and is continued in practice today by over 100 million Shi’ite Muslims worldwide.
Concerning this .practice the following Islamic authority states:

“While in the army, Allah’s Apostle came to us and said, ‘You have been allowed to have Muta (“pleasure”),
so do it.’ If a man and a woman agree to marry temporarily, their marriage should last for three nights …”

Source: Sahih al-Bukbari, part 7, p. 37

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***
Erci Sent: March 05, 2011
Subject: RE: Polygamy, Concubines, and Mistresses in Islam

Dear Geraldine,
I have checked some of youre sources but they aren't correct.
I have at home all the collection of Buhari and the reference you give me is not there.
you also give me some reference of a certan person, but thats not a reference.
So i need to conclude that its like i was suggesting a stro man argumentation.
You build something that is not there and you want me to respond on it.
I cant do that Geraldine.

So if you want to have an intellectual discussion, pls make youre sure youre sources are correct.
For example, if i refer to a verse in the bible, i tlle the book and the verse.
But youre sources are incorrect.
Im sorry but all this is based on false argumentation wich i cant respond on.

Have a nice day.


***

G answers 6 Mar 2011
Subject: Fw: Polygamy, Concubines, and Mistresses in Islam
Really Erci?
May I know the links on the web for the history of Mohammed according to you?


WORLD News.

LIBYA and the historic nonsense of tyranny.
Why do the Libyans make War in place of voting?
Where unquestionable authority and unquestionable submission is part of a culture,
where critic opposition is punished with violence, with Jihad,
in place of resolved through civilized dialogue and voting,
the logical consequence in opposition is fear in submission or bloodshed in war.
Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide. And that is good.



***
Erci Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011
Subject: RE: Polygamy, Concubines, and Mistresses in Islam

Dear Geraldine,
You need to understand the history,
The tyranny leaders youre talking about are but by the USA and the West.
Thank to God know the muslims are using there mind.

All the Middle east will change, the Khalifaat will return, The Profet Muhammed pbuh has profeciced this all.
So for us this is not new,

We know the Coming of Crist, The Anti crist, etc..
I cant write this all on mail but the Muhammed that you know is not the Profet Muhammed pbuh

***


G answers 7 March
Which History is true according to you?? The sunni or the shiia hadiths? Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah,
Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir,  Abu-Dawud?

You said  it is not right what I found about Mohammed.
quote: Dear Geraldine, I have checked some of youre sources but they aren't correct.(...)
I have at home all the collection of Buhari and the reference you give me is not there.End quote.

The Massacre of civilians Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 358: Narrated Jubair bin Mut'im: ...
'Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab: ...When the first civil strife (in Islam) took place because of the murder of 'Uthman,
it left none of the Badr warriors alive. When the second civil strife, that is the battle of Al-Harra,
took place, it left none of the Hudaibiya treaty companions alive.
Then the third civil strife took place and it did not subside till it had exhausted all the strength of the people.'

Erci I, I neither defend the West nor the Eastern World  In the way you blindly defend Muslims, your prophet and the Islam.
I am a friend of both when I see their faults.

It is obvious to me and to anyone who is true that 'keeping appearances' the way you do on behalf of oneself, of another,
of your prophet, of the Muslim world or whoever is not to want to face what is.

To the EGO, as to your Prophet,  you cannot be a friend of someone who sees your  faults.
You have to destroy them. Your tradition says "Slay the enemy where you find him" (Surah 9.92).
I say: destroy the evil in people through awareness.
Violence is the way of brutality.

SORRY TO DISAPPOINT YOU BUT SEE THIS in your credible BUKHARI COLLECTION:
Don't tell me now it is not true about a slave Safiya bint Huyai.
First he (your prophet in a war) kills her people, imprisons her then he makes her a 'free' woman marrying  her!!!
What are the high standards for himself and his men??

Bukhari    Sahih Bukhari 1:8:367
Narrated 'Abdul 'Aziz: Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.
' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, 'O Allah's Apostles!
You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.
' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along with her.' So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya,
'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her."

  In theses Bukhari collections of yours I found translated in English, someone tells that your Prophet
ordered the "two adulterers to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers
used to be placed near the Mosque. "and he "saw her companion
(i.e. the adulterer)  bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones." http://chittarkottai.com/bukhari/search.php.

Understanding this story spiritually for men  means when
'the adulterer was bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones',
he was proving his love for the woman.
Where is the love of Mohammed in this story?

Jesus has said is a similar situation: ' He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone' (John 7:53-8:11).
Justice, from the point of view of love, means that Mohammed would be going to hell for his arrogant,
unforgiving and cruel pretence, and the adulterer to heaven, for their love.

Because love is the only true light giving force, the only spiritual unifying,
the true justice and peace giving force, the only true heaven.

Mohammed  found that to have as many women as pleased concubines or wives marriage such as buying or taking a woman as a slave, was OK.
But  Mohammed  presumed  himself the authority to judge and condemn others to death for breaking a marriage contract.


Here you can read that Bukhari
Sahih Bukhari 1:8:367 Volume 6, Book 60, Number 311:
Narrated Aisha:
I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say,
"Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone
(the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will;
and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51)
I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."
Bukhari :Volume 7 :: Book 62 :: Hadith 6. Narrated Anas:
"The Prophet used to visit all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives."

....................................................................................................................................................................

Erci, you said that the people in Mecca accepted Mohammed with open arms.
Look what your book says: . http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/spread.htm

Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 360:
Narrated Ibn Shihab: These were the battles of Allah's Apostle (which he fought), and while mentioning (the Badr battle) he said,
"While the corpses of the pagans were being thrown into the well, Allah's Apostle said (to them),
'Have you found what your Lord promised true?" 'Abdullah said, "Some of the Prophet's companions said,
"O Allah's Apostle! You are addressing dead people.' Allah's Apostle replied, 'You do not hear what I am saying, better than they.
' The total number of Muslim fighters from Quraish who fought in the battle of Badr and were given their share of the booty,
were 81 men." Az-Zubair said, "When their shares were distributed, their number was 101 men. But Allah knows it better."


WHAT AN ARROGANCE! Allah knows it better? What do you do when you throw a corpse in a well? You poison all the drinking water for everyone. 

You probably see the TV world News. Why is  there is no dialogue with the opposition, but repression in the rule of Gaddafi?
Why do the Libyans make War in place of openly dialoguing?

Why is it that in their speeches, both Gaddafi as the rebels against him say they are martyrs and send each other to hell?

'The scholars are unanimously agreed that a Muslim who insults the Prophet becomes a Kaafir and an apostate who is to be executed'.  http://knowing-islamic-doctrines.blogspot.com/2010/12/islamic-blasphemy-law-as-explained-by.html
This consensus was narrated by more than one of the scholars,  such as Imaam Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh, Ibn al-Mundhir, al-Qaadi 'Iyaad, al-Khattaabi and others.
(Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 2/13-16)
http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/spread.htm


This is what they are taught by Mohammed to admire, this is what the Islamic tradition thought them:
not to listen to critic opposition but, because they really do not have an argument, to kill the ones who oppose or criticizes them.

One can solve problems through love and intelligence, as we try to solve in our dialogue...
If you put aside your keeping appearances on behalf of your prophet.
Where unquestionable authority and unquestionable submission is part of a culture, as in Libya.
When protest arises,  the first option, as with Gadaffi, is not dialogue, but brutal repression and war.

Have you noticed that Gaddafi paid people to kill demonstrators, and decided to give about around 300 euros
to each one of  the population after the International community condemned his attack on his own people??
Where did he learn this?
http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/spread.htm
quote: Warfare was not always the best option for Muhammad.
As he gained wealth he also used money and gifts to spread Islam. End quote.
The Prophet said, "I give them so as to attract their hearts (to Islam)." (Bukhari: vol. 4, bk. 55, no. 558, Khan)

Bukhari :Narrated Anas: The Prophet gathered some people of Ansar and said,
"The People of Quraish are still close to their Pre-lslamic period of ignorance and have suffered a lot,
and I want to help them and attract their hearts (by giving them the war booty). ... (Bukhari: vol. 5, bk. 59, no. 623, Khan).
Narrated Abu Said: Ali sent a piece of gold to the Prophet who distributed it among four persons(...)
The Prophet said, "I give them so as to attract their hearts (to Islam)." (Bukhari: vol. 4, bk. 55, no. 558, Khan) Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 357:
Narrated Qais: The Badr warriors were given five thousand (Dirhams) each, yearly.
'Umar said, "I will surely give them more than what I will give to others."

**************************************************************************************************************

I do not defend the Western nor the Eastern World.
I am a friend of both when I see their faults.

To the EGO, as to your belief, you cannot be a friend of someone and see the faults.
Mohammed could kill people who criticized him.
told to stone people to death when they broke his rules.

It is obvious to me and to anyone that 'keeping appearances' the way you do even on behalf of a prophet,
or even God,  is not want to face what is.

Truly civilized and intelligent solutions for relationships  break that cycle of violence.

Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide. And that is good.

van Chapman


***************************************************************************************************

Dear Erci,  Do you really not understand me (are you thumb sucking)
or  simply avoiding to understand me, just keeping appearances on behalf of your belief,
because you could be killed according to your belief if you saw something not right in it?
You ask me to explain again.
I only defend what I see  coherent with love, not with any religion in particular

So I am not justifying Christianity nor the Islam but I find absurd that you make a blind eye to all that is not good
in your prophet, in the Islam and even in the Muslim world.

All the fault is with the 'West' or 'America', you say.
Do you not ever see the news?
see Abdul Rahman faced death penalty in Afghanistan for converting from Islam to Christianity http://news.uk.msn.com/forum/thread.aspx?board=00000071-0328-0000-0000-000000000000&thread=eeddf632-191a-4abb-ad51-aa3a5dd60757
'how can a religion of peace kill in name of religion?'
You force me again and again to explain what I wrote before.
PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND ONCE AND FOR ALL this: Sincere dialogue is superior to a Belief
which will kill others in name of  religion for example the Islam what you will deny according to the book you have at home.
Unquestionable authority and unquestionable obedience even in a crime is the beginning  (Abraham)
and is the end of this thought-created Monotheism.
Self destructive phenomena of traditions people have called Monotheistic doctrines where Shiites, Sunnites, Catholiques
Jews Protestants, Muslims are ego tripping and killing each other over religion
instead of coming around the table and finding what is really essential in life:

to stop the stupid competition for power and war and collaborate so that we can be sincere and true and fair,
understanding  and loving to each other rather than hate, enslave, dominate or kill each other.
.
You said I have to know the history.
And you said you have at home all the collection of Buhari and the reference I give you is not there.
I found the book and the references in several Muslim sites on internet, which I sent to you by e mail,
and you say again that the references are not right.

So the only solution for the world to know the real history of Mohammed is to go to your house personally
and check in your personal copy of the book.(!!?)

Maybe you really cannot understand English, but I think you do, and because you believe in a religion that kills
those who go back on it, you are afraid to understand and be true and instead continue ego tripping.

***

Erci Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: Polygamy, Concubines, and Mistresses in Islam

Geraldine,
How come you never answer my questions and why dont you put my questions in our dialogue.
Youre dialoge is False, not everything i said you have put there.
fe; the Amazing Qoraan etc..
I told you that youre references are not correct.
If your cant understand that, thats youre problem.
So answer now my question:
Is killing an innocent man for the sins of mankind, is that Love?
Is murdering Love Geraldine?????????,
Is it to difficult to answer that Dear Filosofer??


G answered march 8 2011
Erci, Is that what you call a strong man's argument?
You dismiss all I am saying by writing that what I find in the Koran and in the Bukhari  is not correct
according to YOUR PARTICULAR BOOK.

Tell me where I can find your book on the web so I can have access to it.
Tell me which sequence is not a right reference.

You asked: "If God is Love, How come He killed his Innocent Son, according to what the Christians say ?"

You said: " if i refer to a verse in the bible, i tlle the book and the verse". Where is the reference then?
Our dialogue takes much more time from me than from you.
Go through it on the web and you will see how much more careful and extensively I write than you.

Yesterday I spent all afternoon answering you. And you did not get it.
Read again:
(Unquestionable authority and unquestionable obedience even in a crime is the beginning
(Abraham) and the end of Monotheistic religions ....)

Where did you get the idea that I agree with killing an innocent son as Muslims and Christians believe  in the story of Abraham?
When  did I ever say that God killed the innocent Jesus?
I never said that.Is that what you call a strong man's argument? Show me the reference.

Christians do not say God killed Jesus but sent Jesus who was betrayed by Judas and killed by the men of Cesar.
Symbolically Jesus  accepted to be sacrificed as a sheep  to God, a martyr, as your religion would call it.

Anyhow it is more loving to die in a mission to save humanity than to kill humanity or those who protest,
example on the streets of Libya, in defence of oneself, as we see Gaddafi is doing and I see Mohammed
did in his time according to the references I gave before( and you deny).

I cite Jesus when I agree or not with something he says, when he makes sense or not to me, as I do with you,
with your prophet or with the word of God of any book. I reason from the love of my heart alone.
I am not a follower. Is that too strange for you to understand ?

I am showing you what is incoherent about what is actually happening in the history of Mohammed,
in the history of the Islam in the present Muslim world and you deny to admit there is anything
at all and the whole fault is with the West or America.

Even the war between Shiite and Sunni Muslims ? Is that what you think is a strong man's argument?
That is indeed KEEPING APPERANCES.

You are very demanding. I have to put all we write to each other on the web when you like.

I have to think of the public also. It is too much to put on the first index page, for most people
will not have the patience to read all we say to each other.
I am busy collecting our e mails per date and publishing them in sequence on the page I made especially for it.
And we will be able to see our own incoherences, if any, when we re-read it, so as to clear everything up.

I hope you want to clear everything, what I call a strong argumentation, instead of justifying all on your side
like a lawyer who is paid to defend someone even when he is wrong.

Be well.
G


****
van Chapman
Philosophic Community Projects
www.naturestudio.net
G answered:

Dear Erci now I have a Nederland's Index page on our website with of the last things I wrote. Myriam has translated it for me.

If I always say the same thing, in a way, again and again, is in the hope that this time around you and other religious fanatics will get it.
ABRAHAMM's Story:
THE BEGINNING AND THE END OF BLIND OBEDIENCE EVEN IN A CRIME.
If anyone first orders you not to hate and not to kill, and then, (instead of promoting healthy understanding through questioning
what is and what is not just), commands you to hate and make war against and kill unbelievers, is this not a contradiction?
Abraham was tested for obedience by having been asked to murder his own son, then, a sheep instead,
a story celebrated by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike: the beginning of monotheism.
This particular story means the beginning of the  blind faith and blind following even in a crime.
As I have explained in the 'vegetarian meditation on the Islam',  why MUST we kill a sheep to eat if one can live as a vegetarian?
Why MUST we obey whoever or whatever without questioning?
Why should one follow orders from anyone which we find are not just, even if we are threatened do be murdered if we don't?

The same blind following and blind faith even in a crime will be also the end of the Monotheism,
because blindly following the same tradition, irrationally, for the slightest difference of meaning or interpretation,
murderous opposition and bloody war is created and not the questioning dialogue which could be enlightening
and peace bringing.  Do we follow someone blindly to be in peace with one's consciousness or because this someone threatens us?
If we can be free to question anyone authority with the sincerely of our heart's consciousness, why should we follow
blindly someone who contradicts himself? Because we are threatened?

Killing in the name of God is this tyrant-like irrational attitude is no more than
the product of servitude to thought, as my dear J. Krishnamurti would say.
Product of human pretence and irrational, unwise and  uncompassionate human pretence.

In looking for the divine love and  justice, one must rise upon fear and stop being a slave to forces of darkness and terror.

The law of an eye for an eye is barbaric.
If there is a spiritual justice, it is not that we must blind someone who has made another blind,
simply that someone who did so intentionally was spiritually blind.
The truth is not we need not rettribute a crime with another crime since every crime has in itself its (spiritual) retribution.
The awareness of this spiritual blindness is its only cure.
Spiritual awareness is the only cure for the harm caused by hate, fanaticism, blind irrational beliefs.
Then we will be truly free to separate the corn from the shaft, free, without servitude to what is said
or written anywhere  and we may distinguish the treasures of love's wisdom from the unworthy servitude
or vain love for power anywhere, even Sacred books.


A love-based justice lawyer-judge promotes rehabilitation of people, not their destruction.
Promotes the awakening of consciousness of love and human rights, 
rather than justification of with irrational murderous revenge slavery over people through marriage or belief .

C'est clair et simple!




****************************************************************************
IN THE MEANWHILE I MEET ERCI ON THE STREET AND HE BORROWS ME HIS TRUSTED VERSION OF THE HISTORY OF MOHAMMED.
****************************************************************************

G Answers: 18 March 2011
Erci, thank you for borrowing me the ONLY history of Mohammed you trust.

CONGRATULATIONS  ERCI, only by you can I find the true story of your prophet. (!!!?)
Today it is nowhere on the STANDARD WEB to find !

GOOGLE answered: 'Our search - Marifet Yusuf Ozasian Our only leader the Prophet - did not match any documents'

The book you borrowed me, title: 'Our only leader the Prophet' written by Yusuf Ozasian
and published by Marifet in 29 march 1993, thus very recently.
(Saturday, March 05, 2011 11:12 PM YOU ASKED ME:quote):
'make youre sure youre sources are correct.
For example, if i refer to a verse in the bible, i tlle the book and the verse'(end quote).

THAT IS A STRONG MAN'S ARGUMENTATION ACCORDING TO YOU. Now  look at it:

THE ONLY BOOK YOU TRUST ABOUT THE HISTORY OF MOHAMMED HAS NO REFERENCES...
(to the Koran or Hadith Books  from which the author took the story).!!!
SO, IF YOU ARE COHERENT WITH WHAT YOU WROTE ME BEFORE:
WHO IS NOT HAVING STRONG ARGUMENTATIONS?
WHOSE IS THE FALSE ARGUMENTATION?
WHO IS REALLY MISLEADING HERE?

...........................................................................................................................................
Reference:Erci Sent: , March 05, 2011
Subject: RE: Polygamy, Concubines, and Mistresses in Islam
Dear Geraldine, a reference.
So i need to conclude that its like i was suggesting a stro man argumentation.
You build something that is not there and you want me to respond on it.
I cant do that Geraldine.
So if you want to have an intellectual discussion, pls make youre sure youre sources are correct.
For example, if i refer to a verse in the bible, i tlle the book and the verse.
But youre sources are incorrect.
Im sorry but all this is based on false argumentation wich i cant respond on.
Have a nice day.
;................................................................................................................................................

***
G. answers:  19 Mar 2011 01:11:22 +0100
Subject: Re: Polygamy, Concubines, and Mistresses in Islam

Dear Erci, you wrote me that if I do not give the sources that is
not a strong man's argument.

The only book you trust has no sources at all, therefore, to use
your language and reasoning, it is just for thumb-sucking.

Why are you saying that if I want the sources, I have to come to
your house?
Why are you not more open about the names of sources?

Why are you so reluctant to give me the exact historical authors,
the links to the international knowledge sources of Mohammed's
history ?

I tell you why:
Because you try to dominate over me at all costs though you will
never succeed.

Why? Because you believe all is justified in self defence, and you are
self-defending your belief in a way which is incompatible with a
truth-loyal dialogue.  In a way which is childish and unphilosophical.

Because you are trying wanting to polish the history of your
Prophet, to keep appearances and hide and deny all that is
brutal, barbaric, and incoherent in your Prophet, and his belief,
even if I make it evident to you every time again.

Krishnamurti's once asked:- 'How can a mind full of beliefs see clearly?'

Your friend in love of truth.

***
Erci Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 11:25 AM
Subject: The Last And Final Messenger : Muhammed (PBUH).


Dear Geraldine,
Again you get it wrong.
The Koran tells me that you can do self defence but beging patient is better.

Secondly the Koran teaches us that if you kill one man, its like  you killed mankind.
Is this Terror, is ths Barbaric, is this Brutal.

I told you Geraldine, if you want to go deeper you need to talk to professors in Islamic universities.
You are full of hate and prejudices against the Most Noble man
in History Muhammed (PBUH) that you cant say nothing good
about Him. I Mean ok, if you want to hate Him, Be my gast,

But what do you want from me, Im telling you honestly, youre waisting youre time, evryone who
stood up against Islam has waisted her or his time and finally has lost. Cause Islam is not mine, its From God,

You have problems with it take God to the court. You claim to believe in love wright?
Can you tell me whone good thing that you know about The Profeth Muhammed PBUH.

Or are you full of hate ?????

***

G Answers
To rather murder for a belief than to allow the questioning which leads to truth,
IS MY NOTION OF SATAN, UTTER STUPIDITY,  NOT OF GOD.

One reads the translation of Qur'an 2:216 'Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.' -
4:76 'Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who  -reject faith fight in the cause of evil. '

I say do not what you hate.

If you fight as a philosopher for dialogue and  understanding, as Socrates did, believing that each person has
the consciousness in him, you do not fear to die,
you fear to kill for a belief that contradicts itself by ordering you to kill for a belief,
for God instead of promoting intelligent questioning and dialogue which leads to the truth.

On the street, when I met you and joked with you that you were
looking like an American, you mentioned the MIDDLE WAY.

You know  in your heart Erci, that I never looked at you with
hate, though we seriously disagreed .

Sincerely, G.


Philosophic community Projects
van Chapman
www.naturestudio.net

YOU CALL HATE  A QUESTIONING BASED ON THE FAITH ON SINCERITY AND PARDON  THROUGH THE
AWAKENING OF UNDERSTANDING,  WHILE YOU DEFEND A LAW OF AN EYE FOR AN EYE REVENGE of
your Prophet and HIS word of God.

Commentary on that:  
According to the historic narrations you and many 'your'
professors hide from us, Mohammed did not tolerate critic on
himself, as (logically not) the Koran, his version of God's Word,
'no other than its religion will be tolerated',  and  to fight until
no other religion is than the Islam.

So do not come to tell me that it is the West's fault if Muslims rather use terrorism
to dominate opposition rather than civilized questioning and dialogue.


They are just obedient to a pattern of  unquestioning obedience (even in a crime) for example:
The condemnation of  Reason, Disbelief or Questioning,YOUR Prophet's belief) 
is real prejudice and hate: 2:193 "Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no

dissension, and the religion is for Allah."Fight until no other religion exists but Islam.
Surah 4:89 -"Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn
back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever
you find them..."

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are
friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is
one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more
persecution and religion should be only for Allah"
2:216 Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.
- 4:76 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who
-reject faith fight in the cause of evil.

***

G Answered 19 March
Subject: The Last And Final Messenger : Muhammed (PBUH).

- DO YOU NOT SEE HOW CRUCKED YOUR REASONING?

DISBELIEF AND QUESTIONING (as mine of the brutal sides
of your belief) IS NOT HATE BUT REASON BASED ON THE HEART..

God is love, He wants us to love one another. such as in 'Love your neighbor as yourself. :(Mark 12:31')
Satan wants us to kill each other. (Best Answer/Asker http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?
qid=20100421071922AAaoUyf).  Such as in Surah 4:89 -"Those who reject Islam must be killed.
If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them..."

***


Philosophic community Projects
van Chapman
www.naturestudio.net
From both sides in the  revolutions in the Arab lands as between

Shia and Sunni, they shout 'Allah is the Greatest' and they
murder each other believing themselves to be heroes and sending
each other to Hell (!!! )
They believe in Your Prophet's barbaric methods of religious conquest, 
(like Gaddafi THE SELF GLORIFIED in Libya),
not in dialogue and questioning as the Western Democratic culture does.

  (Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide. And that is good).


Philosophic community Projects
van Chapman
www.naturestudio.net

***
Erci sent 20/03/2011
Question from the Muslim  Erci: 

-Well how do you explain then that God has created Hell, you can read it in Matthieuw.
If he is love then why did he create Hell ???

20/03/2011 Question from the Muslim  Erci: 


-Well how do you explain then that God has created Hell, you can read it in Matthieuw.
If he is love then why did he create Hell ???


Answer Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:38 PM
Subject: The Holy Spirit is the spirit of love itself.


When you are a child you believe Santa Claus is a person who really exists somewhere.
When you grow you understand he just symbolizes a spirit, who brings us light and blessings, gifts.

Is love a person or that which makes us truly a person?
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of love itself.
True love is our spiritual paradise and our selfishness is our spiritual hell.

False thoughts create the greed, vanity, jealousy, hate, and crime,
which are our spiritual hell, so long  the  illusion  persists,  not in the hereafter, but here and now,
for who has eyes to see.


We create our spiritual heaven or hell for ourselves.
There is no one else to send you to a spiritual paradise or to hell.

Buddha saw that greed created of suffering.
(greed the illusion of selfishness, separation, falseness, pride, hate).
Buddha saw that clarity, compassion, thus, the light of love, is the way out.



Jesus, on the cross, realized Buddha's vision that evil is caused by illusion,  when he asked God,
(Luke 23:34)' Forgive them, because they do not know what they were doing").

God who should have known best, but did not know best,
because the revengeful god men created  was also a product of their own revenge and hate.


Jesus realized then, at least, that the way was not brutality and hate but understanding and light.
Therefore 'love your enemies', and not as Mohammed believed:
'Kill unbelievers wherever you find them' or
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" Qur'an (8:12)
which in the name of the MOST MERCIFUL
(in whatever context you want to place) is total spiritual madness...

Those who believed in this God, who should have known better but did not,
until Jesus opened his eyes, think like this: The greatest sinners, through the intercession of Jesus,
may obtain pardon. God heard him, and still hears him "always".

For me this is all a thought process, that has its based on old beliefs,
trying to justify old beliefs at any cost.

But wisdom comes directly from consciousness and the heart,
not from justification or condemnation based on belief.

Justification or condemnation based on belief is the cause
of the most absurd and unsolvable conflicts today,
of the madness of suicide or mass murder terrorists,
and we have a chance to decide to leave it all behind us,
or go on with the nonsense indefinitely.


The Holy Spirit is the spirit of love itself.
Is love a person or that which makes us to be truly a person?
Love is that without which we are lost, and with which we find ourselves.

The rest are just beliefs...



You may wonder how can I speak in such a free way you cannot:

'The truth will set you free'

Your friend in love of truth.


***

Erci Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: The Holy Spirit is the spirit of love itself.

Dear Geraldine,

Can you answer now my question and stop writing blubber.
You claime that God is Love, in Mattheuw God says that he will punish them in Hell.
So im asking you, if he is Love then why is he going to punish them in Hell and why did He Create Hell and not only paradise.

And now pls answer the question and not turning around the table.

Thank you

***

G. answered 21 Mar 2011
Subject: Re: The Holy Spirit is the spirit of love itself.

I have already answered.
Go back to it with an open mind or with a teacher from your school.
Write me when you get it. G.

***

Erci Sent 22, 2011
Subject: RE: JESUS SAID, SLAY THEM BEFORE ME...

The bible says that the hell was designed originally for Satan and his Demons.
So im asking you Geraldine, Who has designed it Beside God????
Youre talking about Jesus and love, did you forget that Jesus said, Slay them Before me ?????
SLAY THEM BEFORE ME, SLAY THEM BEFORE ME,,,

So it seem that youre God of Love has olsa a punishment side ????
And it seems that youre filosofie is callapst.

So dont bother me anymore with your bulshit Love story !!!!!!!!!!!!
So maybe you can come To Islam, and find the Truth cause the Truth will set you free.
Like Jesus said, Follow the spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth, he wont speak from hisself but what he hear that shall he say.
John, 16:12-14
Jesus was Talkinga bout the profeth Muhammed PBUH.

Here you have some references what you God of love says about the Hell Fire, there are more but i think this is enough.
(1) Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).
(2) Everyone has only one life in which to determine their destiny (Hebrews 9:27).
(3) Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, etc.).
Key Passages About Hell
(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).
(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).
(3) Hell is conscious torment.
"    Matthew 13:50 "furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth"
"    Mark 9:48 "where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched"
"    Revelation 14:10 "he will be tormented with fire and brimstone"
(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible.
"    Revelation 14:11 "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night"
"    Revelation 20:14 "This is the second death, the lake of fire"
"    Revelation 20:15 "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire"

***

G answers: Subject: Fw: JESUS SAID, SLAY THEM BEFORE ME...
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:12:55 +0100
There is no difference between  Mohammed's Koran telling you to kill Muslims who renegade the Islam, 
and Mafia gangs telling you, once you have been a member, that they will kill you if you renegade their brutal gang...
in both cases there is brutal tyranny and that is not love.
I believe in what makes sense, no matter who said it, You like all believers believe in someone even  if that one make no sense,
And in that way you do not differ from many Jews and Christians your Koran tells you not to be a friend of.
And most believers  believe even in that what  makes no sense out of fear of others or death or hell.
(In your book of the history of Mohammed the author pretends Mohammed will tell you what is the word of God and what not.
what is good and what is bad. To me this is bad: If a God makes no sense in rather punishing his creatures  for all eternity than
to give them insight and wisdom,  it is the creation of man's unforgiving irrational hate.)
I believe in what makes sense, and it can be Jesus or your Mohammed, but do not tell me I have to believe it because it is written
or because Jesus or Mohammed has said it, because I will not believe point other line.
Sorry Erci, but So long as you or another comes to me with your fanaticism or irrational belief, they will hear me speak of reason and love.
Have a good day.
G



Erci sent March 22, 2011

Subject: RE: JESUS SAID, SLAY THEM BEFORE ME...

Geraldine,
Im not coming to you, its you who are coming to me.
Im happy in my religion, its you who have problems with the islam.
i told you many times, i dont believe that God is Love and still you want to convince me.
So you have youre religion i have mine.
Its as simple as that.
Let this be my last answer of our conversation.

End of story.

***

G Answers:  Tue, 22 Mar 2011
Subject: Fw: JESUS SAID, SLAY THEM BEFORE ME...

Do not lie Erci- you have come to me as I came to you, as a friend.
You trying to dominate me and convince me that the Islam is superior to every other religion or ideology,
even to reason and love, and I proving to you with clear evidence of its contradictions that this it is pure pretence.
If you want to end the story here then I must thank you for taking the challenge.  for whether you realize it or not,
you helped me to prove my point in this discussion: Love or Belief?
Thank you also, in name of the evolution humanity, in name of the freedom of consciousness.
From your friend in love of truth.

***

Erci Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011
Subject: RE: JESUS SAID, SLAY THEM BEFORE ME...
Ok Let it end here,
But i want to add to this conversation that i didnt took the time and research to answer you.
So my answers could be not complete.

But anyway its was also very intresting.
May Allah guide us all closer to the Truth.
By

***

G. Answers Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011
Subject: The truth about the Islam: You may see any wrong in it or you are a dead man!

Thank you for the 'interesting'.
I am not sure it is the end of the story. You will always want to add something.
Not only you have not taken time to research , you have actually not had time to understand -
only to defend yourself at all costs, deny all evidence I showed you was not nice about the Islam,
therefore you have not been really honest. Neither to yourself nor to me.
That is obvious in our dialogue, and that is why you helped me to prove my point,
and why our dialogue can be very boring without a synthesis made of it one day.
But I cannot blame you alone:

This is the truth about your prophet and his belief the Islam:
4:89 -"Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them
wherever you find them..."
You cannot be yourself, you cannot be true in a confrontation with love and reason.
You cannot see anything wrong in your belief or you (fear you are) a dead man!
From your friend in love of truth.

***

Erci Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011
Subject: RE: The truth about the Islam:
Peace

***

G answers. 22 Mar 2011
Subject: Re: The truth about the Islam: You may NOT see any wrong in it or you are a dead man!

You may NOT see any wrong in it or you are a dead man!

***

Erci Sent: March 23, 2011
Subject: PEACE

PEACE

***

G.answers  Subject: Fw: PEACE
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011
"Those who reject (HIM, Gadaffi)  must be killed.
If they turn back (From HIM, Gaddafi ), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them..."
Not love from his people but a violent rape.
a wolf disguised as a sheep.
One difference of interpretation, as between 
Gadaffi and the protesters, Sunnis and Shiia Muslims,
and instead of dialogue, and voting, both sides believe they are the marthyrs,
and the both sides believe they are justified to send each other (literally) to hell.
4:89 -"Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them
wherever you find them..."
This is your prophet's bloody peace. enjoy it.

***

Erci Sent: March 23, 2011
Subject: RE: PEACE

Peace

G.answers  Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 Subject: The end
Peace to one who unlike your prophet, does not kill with stones someone for a betrayal, but forgives.

Because those who will possess another as a slave keeper in truth do not love, but rape.
Peace to the one who, unlike your Prophet, can take critic and protest and unbelief without going to war to kill the other.
because to answer unbelief  but with murder and not with reason as Mohammed's version of God does, is the end of love and peace.
Peace unto all who have laid down all arrogant, vain pretence of power, or hypocrite subservience,
because the vain arrogance of men as their ignoble subservience to power leads to lying and endless division, as humble honesty leads to union and truth.
Peace unto your prophet also, when instead of covering up or following his example blindly, you and his followers recognize the faults he made.
Your friend in love of truth.
G
***
Erci Sent: March 24, 2011
Subject: RE: not the false peace of the ego in keeping appearances

Dear Geraldine,
It seems you are obsessed with Islam.
That good for you.
Didnt you understand that publishing the same ves over and over again makes a fool of you.
As you said our conversation has ended.
Now leave me in Peace as i leave you in Peace.
Or do you want to stalk me with the same verses over and over again.
Get a hobby i should say.
Now tell me when can you pay me my 200 € back?

***

Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011
Subject: Re: not the false peace of the ego in keeping appearances

Dear Erci,
Obsessed is someone who cannot question( a belief). To be critical of something is to be free of it.

Answering  honestly and not allowing someone to dominate over you out of a belief alone is not the same as stalking .

I repeat myself in our dialogue if you keep denying  clear, simple evidence.

Foolishness is denying reason and love denying simple evidence .

Your belief teaches you to think a man to be superior to a woman and a believer superior to a non believer
(a believer of the Islam alone). So you want to have the last word and the upper hand over me.
That is not being honest. That is being a believer.


About your portrait:
You are afraid to have your real name and photo in our conversation on the web. I am not ,
even though your fanatic brothers who have no more intelligent argument could kill me for speaking of reason and  love,

and all I could do is prove you wrong (in the eyes of reason and love) in this dialogue, which I have done.

So in our conversation I am not  the one who is hiding.

I cannot make a better portrait (than the one I made of you) of someone who is not really true  to me.
So I gave you your portrait for free.

You will have to wait for your money back when I have it.
I have to wait until you stop hiding your real name and your real face in our conversation.
I do not know when that will be.

Be well.

Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: not the false peace of the ego in keeping appearances

Ok Geraldine,

Let me know when you have the money.

Peace

¨***

Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: not the false peace of the ego in keeping appearances
G.answers
Erci,
You said last you have not done research to answer our dialogue.
You let me do research alone, again and again.

If at least you were to someone who was willing to understand, (not only to convince others),
I had not to repeat myself so many times all these years.so you did not really
read with care and you did not really answer with care our dialogue.

I did most of the work. Even the portrait you asked of yourself.

I did what I could but not what you asked me to do:
tot change your eyes in that portrait.
The change in your eyes (as in my portrait of you), has to come from within you.

Stop  hiding your name and your face from our dialogue,
stop fearing if I record on video our conversation while I finish that portrait.

-How can a mind full of fear, full of beliefs see clearly?
Would have asked again Krishnamurti.

Once I wrote in a poem that 'angels have no fear, for they are protected by the love in their hearts'.
Only then I will believe in your peace.
Be well.

***

Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: not the false peace of the ego in keeping appearances

Dear Erci,
Obsessed is someone who cannot question( a belief). To be critical of something is to be free of it.

Answering  honestly and not allowing someone to dominate over you out of a belief alone is not the same as stalking .

I repeat myself in our dialogue if you keep denying  clear, simple evidence.
Foolishness is denying reason and love not denying simple evidence, simple reason and love
Your belief teaches you to think a man to be superior to a woman and a believer superior to a non believer
(a believer of the Islam alone). So you want to have the last word and the upper hand over me.
That is not being honest. That is being a believer.


About your portrait:
You are afraid to have your real name and photo in our conversation on the web. I am not ,
even though your fanatic brothers who have no more intelligent argument could kill me for speaking of reason and  love,
and all I could do is prove you wrong (in the eyes of reason and love) in this dialogue, which I have done.

So in our conversation I am not  the one who is hiding.

I cannot make a better portrait (than the one I made of you) of someone who is not really true  to me. So I gave you your portrait for free.
You will have to wait for your money back when I have it.
I have to wait until you stop hiding your real name and your real face in our conversation.
I do not know when that will be.

Be well.

***
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: not the false peace of the ego in keeping appearances

Dear Geraldine,

In The Name of Allah The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.
I want to add in our conversation that Miracle that The Holy Qoran is the Word of The All Mighty.
Every reader of this converstation, i would like to invite you to see the miracles of the HoLy Qoran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHdAPLRDrIM&feature=related 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiMtKjwda2M&feature=related

I will check youre website, and if i dont find these Links and my Tekst there,

Then you will lose all my respect.

Be honest publish what is said and wrighted not only the things that you would like to publish.
Just the truth and nothing but the Whole Truth.


By

***

Subject: Re: not the false peace of the ego in keeping appearances
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011
Are you threatening me?
If you accuse me of something you have to explain what you meant,
or no one who reads will respect what you say.
Before I publish anything answer the question.
You said you are studing International law to become a lawyer.
So the law of the Islam Sharia does not concern you?
In what way did I betrayed you? I have no idea.
You said you are studing International law to become a lawyer.
So the law of the Islam Sharia does not concern you?

***
March 26, 2011
Subject: Madam Hate.

Geraldine,
You have betrayed me for not doing my portret afther you have got your money.
The portret is not even looking like me.

Geraldine, you need to understand that islam is a very big religion, you have many subject,
fe: relations with your parents, feeding the poor, how to fast, how to pray, Sharia, Sunnat etc.....
Next time dont come and say i want to talk about the Islam, but say i want to talk about Sharia.
Everything of Islam intrestes me but i didnt had the time to study the Sharia.
Thats why i cant answer youre questions.

You need to go to an professor of Sharia cause youre questions are always the same, its about stoning, and killings etc.
Its also strange  that the only thing that comes of a Madam of Love is punishment.

I think you need to look at the mirror, i start to think that you believe in Hate insted of Love.
So from now on im gonna Call you Madam Hate.

The Holy Qoran tells you, if you think its not of Allah, then produce a chapter like it.
So who are you waiting for, Madam Hate?

Be an Honest Woman, Finish my Portret wich you have been paid for !!!!
Or give me my money back.

I tried to help you after you told me you had financial problems, and what did you do?
You are saying you want to finish my portret with conditions.

I didnt asked conditions when i payed you.
What you are doing is very fals and cowerdly.
I think im getting to know you Madam HATE.

***

G Answered:
Thanks for the answer. Now I can publish your previous e mail.

You were happy the first time you saw your portrait.
And you paid it. Then you demanded I change the eyes.
Then I found out that you paid in the condition that I paint you the way you want me to see you.
Not the way I see you.
So I rather give you your money back
but you have to wait. I don't know when I will have money.

You tried a dialogue with me to make me see Mohammed- Koran-Allah  the way you see them,
not to allow me to show you the faults I see in them.
You are not content with how I see them.

I proposed we look openly at  the references to irrational horrible things in of the Koran, in the Hadiths and even in your Bukhari*.

But you try to justify them or hide them from me,
( re-read our dialogue from the beginning if you will deny that),
you try to give the excuse that the references are not correct, (according to the only history of Mohammed without references you gave me)
or that you have not made research, and do not know about the Sharia etc.

And when I do the research for you, you deny their existence, you send me to talk to others, because you may not reason for yourself..

You are not content with how I see you.

So I propose we speak openly (before a video camera),
while I work on your portrait.

But you want to hide yourself  in this dialogue
where you cannot have the upper hand on me
BECAUSE LOVE IS A MUCH STRONGER ARGUMENT
THAN TO DEFEND THE UNQUESTIONABILITY OF Mohammed's ALLAH.


*Death Punishment for Apostasy,

QUOTE: The grim reality for a modern Muslim regarding apostasy is that its death penalty is
rooted in the Qur'an and in the Hadith. I have shown that this is the case in this article.
Such a punishment for a behavior that is not a crime at all, but a right that any human
being of our time should enjoy, cannot be a morally justified punishment.
One should be
able to change religious beliefs if one wants to without the threat of being killed. (End quote).
FaithFreedom.org "Apostasy in Islam" (114 KB)




***



Dear Muslim

I do not defend the Western nor the Eastern World.

I am a friend of both when I see their faults.


To the EGO, as to your belief, you cannot be a friend of someone and see the faults.

Mohammed could kill people who criticized him.

told to stone people to death when they broke his rules.


It is obvious to me and to anyone that 'keeping appearances' the way you do even on behalf of a prophet, or even God,  is not want to face what is.


Truly civilized and intelligent solutions for relationships  break that cycle of violence.


Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide. And that is good.



LATEST EXCHANGE
DIALOGUE WITH A MUSLIM

LOVE OR BELIEF?



31 March 2011

NEVER MIND THE SPELLING -ENGLISH FAULTS!


So you wanted to end the discussion with "To you be your religion, and to me my
religion" (109:6).

That was before Mohammed came to power. Afterwards, it was (and this is not the Sharia but the Koran, my dear Muslim):
(Quote):'Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them...(4:89) " ?


In whatever way you turn it, your prophet's religion did not trust an immanent justice like Hindu's or Buddhist's Karma law, but actually tried to created murderers out of Muslims themselves.

:'Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them...(4:89) ".

If you shoot dead someone for deserting a religion you are not using violence in self defence only, but actively forcing people to convert  (even the peace loving like the Hindus or Buddhists and the vegetarians and the philosophers and the human rights defenders and the whole world)  to a sheep slaughtering, bloody brutal religion through fear, not differently from any criminal Nazi, tyrant, mafia gang.


Can you explain why the 'Madame hate' when I simply reject your insincerity before the stupid violence your religion preaches in name of the MOST MERCIFUL???

Answer honestly, would you follow your heart or will you justify a religion that teaches 'Those who reject Islam must be killed' ?
If you justify it, what is the context that can justify this contradiction in a religion?


More important than the portrait is the sincerity in this dialogue.
Your eyes in the portrait cannot be good so long as you are avoiding the point
avoiding the question,  so long you avoid to be truly open and sincere in this dialogue.

G.


Reference:
Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

quote: When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he
called for tolerance. He said "To you be your religion, and to me my
religion" (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance (end quote).

   http://www.faithfreedom.org







ABRAHAM AND THE ANGEL

In the history of Abraham, God  told him to kill his son,
but an angel told him not to kill his son.
To kill a sheep instead, (if needed,  love would add).
If you can live well as a vegetarian,
then not even killing a sheep is needed.


It was better Abraham followed the angel,
than his unreasonable idea of God.







Philosophic Community Projects

van Chapman

www.naturestudio.net



4 April
Erci called me and he was friendly, and I was friendly to him.

He had an idea, he would show me some photos he had taken with dark glasses.
I told him I wanted to paint him without any dark glasses.
He said that apart from something in the nose and around the eyes the portrait was fine.
He complained I put conditions to finish it.

Once again I explained what was not acceptable to me in the Koran as in any religion:
As Mohammed taught, if you abandon a Faith, its members could murder you, like the mafia does.
(like if a woman betrays a man with another, (and he thinks can have several women), he can stone her to death.?..).


He tried to explain but I felt it coming, the 'rond the pot draaien' and I was short with him.
I told him to write me if he wanted to answer me.
He said he had no time!

He lies..he simply has no argument.

He has lost the argument  from the start in this discussion,
but he will have time enough to try to fool me around not to openly admit it.

I cannot make a true portrait of someone who is not humble, or I have to paint a mask..
.



PS I MAY NOT PUBLISH HIS PORTRAIT NOR HIS REAL NAME.







Philosophic Community Projects

van Chapman

www.naturestudio.net



Dear believer, if you kill the ignorance, the ignorant is no more!
Or would rather perpetuate ignorance?

What I try to say to this Muslim is that one does not enlighten someone by cutting off his head.


THE FOLLOWING DIALOGUE HAS NOT BEEN EDITED AN CAN BE VERY  LONG AND BORING,  NOT ONLY FOR THE LANGUAGE DEFICIENCY IN THESE E MAILS, BUT  BECAUSE THIS MUSLIM SIMPLY CANNOT REASON WITH HIS BELIEF. BUT IT MAY BRING A LIGHT ANYWAY IN THE DARKNESS OF  MINDS LIKE HIS.



Share Your Thoughts: 
Should Capital Punishment be Abolished?

TheReligionofPeace.com
Islamic Terror Attacks on Christians
(Since 9/11)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/christianattacks.htm


Philosophic Community Project.
by van Chapman:

How can you ever know if another is happy with you if you keep'm in a cage?
It is not faith, but fear which keeps one encaging others, or being encaged.

He who would kill one for leaving  him, belongs to a mafia, not a religion.

Open question: -Is this the USA, is this the Islam, is this your country, is this you?





EXTRACT FROM 
DIALOGUE WITH A (FANATC MUSLIM ) ERCI
(Text Revised 2014)

THEY think their barbaric law of murdering for a belief, lapidating, decapitating, or crucifying for a belief will prevail over all other societies in world, (even above those who (like  followers of Gandhi or Buddhists (non believers for the Islam)
who will never murder or crucify others, who are truly compassionate.


Listen to yourself:
Before you say I am sucking my thumb because there is no crucifying in the Koran.
as you denied the stoning in the Sharia (law).
When I show it to you, where it is written (about crucifying in the Koran), you the say it is its right.

In China, where serious breaches on Human rights are a concern for the rest of the world,
I also MUST ALSO BELIEVE AND NOT CRITICISE THEIR COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT OR ELSE....
AND THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE PROTECTING CITIZENS.

BUT IF IT IS WRITTEN IN THE KORAN
(5:33) "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam" Koran . Will you simply say AMEN, "JA KNIKKEN".
(SO BE IT)?.
You NOW SAY -"Muslims have the right to (murder or crucify)  defend themselves, (their society)"

HOW CAN I MAKE YOUR PORTRAIT?
YOU FIRST LIKED THE PORTRAIT I MADE OF YOU,
THEN I MUST CHANGE THE EYES AND THE NOSE.

BUT YOU WILL NOT BE FILMED WHEN I WORK ON YOUR PORTRAIT AS I PROPOSED. 

YOU SAY YOU WILL BECOME A LAWYER IN BELGIUM SO I WILL ASK YOU, ON FILM, FOR THE PROOF,
  IF YOU WILL DEFEND THAT LAW OF CUTTING HANDS, MUTILATING, STONING OR CRUCIFYING FOR A BELIEF CALLED THE SHARIA.

WHERE IS YOUR REAL FACE ERCI?

You act like a doll, a puppet, not a true human being, thanks to your belief.

I will give you back the money you paid when I can. Sorry if I still cannot.

You can have the portrait for free.


Philosophic Community Projects
www.naturestudio.net








The return of the Portrait-
Philosophic Community Project

-Part of a long dialogue with a Muslim friend who will stay anonym.
Finally, I had the money to give back to Erci. Money he had paid me for the portrait I made of him.
I invited him in the courtyard. It was a sunny day in the garden full of flowers and brought him the money and the portrait also, which I said he could have, for free, if he wanted it.

The reason I returned the money he paid for the portrait, was that he did not like the eyes in them, demanding me that I change them and I denied to change anything by command.
(I would do it if he were able to assume publicly to be the one in our dialogues but he denied that...

While we both looked at the portrait in the garden, to my surprise, he said that his eyes in the portrait were good (!?) And asked if I had worked on them. I had not, and I told him so.

How can one explain this!? Now he changed his way of seeing, after all!

For the first time since I know him, he gave me a hug, and asked me to forgive him if he had hurt me.
This was beautiful from him! I told him: - Idem. I never want to hurt you.
-But you have been angry! He said.
-Yes, because you interrupted me...
He was in a hurry. On his way out, on the street, I asked him his meaning about the condemnation to death (by Sudanese authorities) of a Muslim woman for having married a Christian man- (the Meriam Yehya Ibrahim issue I mentioned before).

-I cannot defend Muslims who are not here... he said in a low voice...
-But it is international news! I protested.
Evading the subject, he started telling about some awful torture crimes, supposedly committed by " -Buddhists or those others'.
-Real Buddhists could not do that, I tried to tell him, as he went away along the side of the street. - -That is totally against Buddha's teachings.
He  kept walking and repeating from a distance: "-Be in peace,  while I repeated after him out loud :
- You can understand me!

So I write him:
-What can be the peace, dear Muslim, in this 'looking the other way'?
What is the peace, in refusing, like a partial lawyer, to see any unkindness, in your client, when in him there is murder?
What is the peace, my friend, in accusing of being violent, those (Buddhists) instead, whose teachings are so much kinder, compassionate towards all beings, whose wisdom would never kill others for,  nor enslave others to a belief?

Yes, you can understand me...do  not deny it.

van Chapman
Philosophic Community Project
-
Slavery has been abolished from US constitution.
  Can it be abolished in the Koran?
If not, my friend, change religion.



year 2014





?End of a long attempt of a dialogue with a fanatic Muslim

No end.
This is like the Tale of a 1001 nights !!!


You say you do not believe in love as I do.

you believe in justice, not love, because you believe in Alah.

I say there is no Justice without love.



Does a good teacher kill a student because a student does not believe or understand?

Does a good teacher punish  a human fault or crime with an even worse crime?

What I have shown you in this dialogue is that not all which is written in the scriptures and Koran is just.

some punishments in the Koran are not a form of just punishment but  a much worse crime.

and Erci finally gave in and : answered: -Maybe...

Now he must be giving it some thought.



Terrorists are not afraid of bombs, they are afraid of questions.

Spiritual voice cannot be silenced by neither questions nor bombs ,
Spiritual people are afraid  to harm or do injustice to anyone, what terrorists are not afraid of.

Wishing all the best to you. 







Abraham's story of him being willing to kill even his own son, out of obedience, set out the example of blind obedience even in a crime, to religious authority or whom we consider to be God.

(He could have stopped and asked himself  if he could trust anyone or any spirit as just and good, who would order him to murder anyone, in particularly, an innocent child.)




-Philosophic Community Projects -
True angels destroy not men, but the falseness in them.
www.naturestudio.net

LATEST EXCHANGE with a fanatic Muslim 26 November

Dialogue with a fanatic muslim
----- Original Message -----
From: van Chapman to Erci a Muslim Fanatic

Cc to the press: lezers de morgen ; knack ; standaard ; terzake@canvas.be




Dear Erci, if it interests you,

Found a site on internet where the innumerous attacks on Jews and Christians by Mohammed on the Koran, in name of God, as the author of the site declares, proofs that Muhammad's Quran is as UNGODLY as Hitler's Mein Kampf.
http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Total%20War.html

Be well.
van Chapman



NOTE

Dear Muslim, I can even know what you might say next, defending all the violence in the Koran against the freedom to see for oneself or beliefs other than the Islam, so I can already have the next question for you: are you saying that people have to sacrifice peaceful non violence for the sake of brutal violence in name of the Most forgiving and the religion of Peace?

Philosophic Community Projects –
True angels destroy not men, but the falseness in them
www.naturestudio.net





Letter to the President
24  November 2012 
(reduced to 500 words + - 25000 characters to send to the White House)

Dear Barack Obama, 
If the world could have voted, it would have voted for you.
In spite you saying that ‘nationalism’ is among one of the most important things, which is not to me, your victory speech was inspired and inspiring.
Congratulations! Happy you were re-elected. 
And because you are such a humble man, be welcome by us in our atelier and garden if you are free or need our help. 

Send you this meditation because you can understand;
will publish it on our website + your answer, if I get one.
All the best,
yours, Geraldine (van Chapman)

“The petty God of a petty mind”

Meditation 
Sedating before slaughter is in the agenda for all European countries. 
In this sense Europe is on the right direction of consciousness, of humane treatment for all, and spiritual evolution. I would like to see the same in the whole world. But there are people against it to our surprise, from religious groups! 
 On the News, Muslims and Jews in Europe object to the more humane way of sedation before slaughter. Part of a duty of Muslims is the offer of a sheep in Mecca in a non sedated, brutal and bloody ritual slaughter.

LOVE OR THE HOLY SPIRIT is simple: 
'DO NOT TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULD NOT HAVE DONE UNTO YOU.' 

A human is better than a beast by the virtue of the love, compassion in him.
Can one enjoy how a lion brutally kills his prey? 
Can one enjoy it being the prey? No. 
I would like a happy life and a peaceful death without fear or suffering. So I wish to others.

An unearthly Paradise is  to ‘love our enemies’, when the “lion” and the “sheep” shall lay peacefully together, (as our cats and dogs can be friends, contrary to their earthly instincts). 

Do Muslims want to be discriminated for their Beliefs? No.
 Yet discrimination of belief is central in Koran : (3: 85)“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good”).  

Are Muslims to convert all people without question, even professing non-violence, as vegetarians, Buddhists or Yogis, to a religion which demands violent ritual slaughter, not to mention the horror of ‘Honour’ Murders, illegal crime in the civilized world?  

Paradise, the eternal Spirit of love itself, cannot be reached by perpetuating the brutal predator in us, the unnecessary martyrdom of sheep, nor in violating people, in denying them their right to critical questioning, to practice non- violence.

A violent terrorist by a terroristic belief is not yet a full grown human, much less an angel, or the messenger of God.
To be a religious terrorist is to adore what Krishnamurti called a “Petty God of a petty mind”.
van Chapman



article by van Chapman 
-Philosophic Community Projects -
True angels destroy not men, but the falseness in them.
www.naturestudio.net


LATEST EXCHANGE MARCH 2012

(I decided to give him the portrait for free and give him back what he paid for it when I had the possibility to do it.On the 24 march Erci returns his portrait rather than openly assume our dialogue.

.)



From Ergi_

Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:49 AM
Subject: RE: E-mail verzenden: IMG_3471.jpg


Dear Geraldine,


We have this discussion over and over again, Go to an Islamic Scolar and start over.
For me this Discussion is OVER!!!
Let us talk about how youre going to pay me back my 200 €. (he gives details how i am to pay back.

I will agree with a date calender about how much you would like to pay me off every month.
So wich amount is good for you?
Let me know

greets





This was the answer from me, March 28-2012 ,.

Dear Erjan,

You do not mind to argue with me.
Every time we see each other you do that again. What you do not want is that I reason, and so I argue back.
You can have an upper hand above me because you are physically stronger, but reason; insight, depends on honesty and sincerity alone, not self defence and not physical power.One MUST believe he (Mohammed) is the kindest man on earth or he might have you killed!!! (if you dare to criticize him, lose belief in him, in his teachings and examples (religion)).

Who is really BLIND Erjan???
"The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islamic Sharee'ah. The one who leaves Islam will be asked to repent by the Sharia'ah judge in an Islamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kefir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him):"Whoever changes his religion, kill him." ( al-Bukhaari, 3017).

Last year I was busy with a film that was not sponsored yet.

Now I am painting, working on an exhibition and have to wait for the gallery man to come to know for sure when that happens. I must live on Myriam till I sell something. and she has really a minimal income herself. not enough thus.

Normally I make only one exhibition a year.

Will let you know when I have news.
Be well and enjoy the good weather.

G

previous e mail
On the 24 march Erci returns his portrait rather than openly assume our dialogue.

Erci, you went away and I could not explain myself.

Even if Mohammed has good qualities, as you tell me, I do not see anything good in the total message of someone who can have himself more than 5 women but who would have stoned alive to death any of his many women who would betray him with another man.

Once you said to me you did not believe in love as I do, but in Justice.
You say you are studying to become a lawyer and you can tell me:

-Is Belief alone a reason to condemn or kill anyone in a court of Justice?

Where is the justice in accusing and condemning even to death anyone based not on proof but in belief?

Why is it so hard for Muslim to become a Christian or join with another religion?
Erci You MUST consider Mohammed superior to Jesus whatever your heart says, or you are a dead man, according to sources of the Islam. But you (Erci), will deny all that tyranny of your belief and your Prophet:. Do not deny or pretend you do not know this:

Shiite and Sunnite Muslims continue to kill each other since the beginning out of a impossibility to resolve in peace a difference of belief.
From all sides of the recent conflict in the Arabic countries, Muslims against Muslims , because of the mentality of tyrannical authority and submission to authority, Muslims in war shout Allah before killing each other, instead of having a civilized questioning and dialogue.

Since the time of Abraham and in the so called ‘holly’ books there are countless commands to judge or kill out of unquestioning belief alone.

‘'To him who fights in the cause of Allah,(and that is both sides in a conflict - whether he is slain or gets victory - soon shall We give him a reward of great value.” “The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islamic Sharee'ah. The one who leaves Islam will be asked to repent by the Sharee'ah judge in an Islamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kefir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him):"Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).

‘Mohammed said, “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)

This command is practiced in almost all Islamic Fundamentalist countries today.)’

This is not Justice but pure madness.

In this aspect is unquestioning Belief is no better than tyranny as with mafia and criminal bands.

To say 'Sura 5:51: Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends as Mohammed dictated in the Koran, and still say ‘ “To you be your religion, to me be mine.” makes no sense.

If I speak of Jesus Christ is not that I do not see his contradictions, but that YOU give a blind eye to the contradictions I pointed out shown during our Dialogue in the life of Mohammed, and the Koran of Mohammed dictated as being the word of God:

:http://www.naturestudio.net/dialogue_with_a_Muslim_erci.html

The dialogue you also refuse to assume openly, reason why I do not finish your portrait

but gave to you gratis, and will pay you back when I can afford it.

Greater teaching than 'Kill your enemies wherever you find them..' from the Koran is: ‘Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Matthew 5:44

Be well.

Your friend in love of Truth


QUOTES from Islamic sources

Do you know wars of Muhammad were called Qazwah and do you know that Qazwah means sudden attack or ambush?


Why is it so hard for Muslim to become a Christian or join with another religion?

Mohammed said, “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)

This command is practiced in almost all Islamic Fundamentalist countries today.)


Let us see what Shaykh ‘Abd-Allah ibn Jibreen says about freedom of faith in Islam:

"if your wife leave Islam and “if she does not repent then the ruling of Allaah should be carried out on her, which is execution, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion [leaves Islam], execute him.” 

(Sahih Bukhari 4.260) Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people [hypocrites] and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

see also Sahih Bukhari 9,84,57

‘The following is another Islamic site that unabashedly says:

“The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Sharee'ah. The one who leaves Islaam will be asked to repent by the Sharee'ah judge in an Islaamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):"Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).’

http://thetruereligion.org/apostatepunish.htm

‘So, Muslims are free to investigate the truth of other religions only though Islamic sources and at the end they MUST accept Islam as or face death. They are not allowed to own or read a Bible or the sacred books of other religions. They are free to investigate these religions by asking about them from their Imams. ‘

‘(Sahih Bukhari 4.260), Sahih Bukhari 9,84,57 , al-Bukhaari, 3017)., Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen

, I am not for violence.( says Ali Sina) But I firmly believe we need to grab the Muslims' attention. The best way to do that is to treat them the way their holy book says non Muslims should be treated.

Muslims will not wake up unless they are given a taste from their own medicine. (He means the discrimination of Muslims because of belief).’


‘At length.

did glance at Islam and the Quran, not quickly but very meticulously and I reject it as a cult of terror and barbarity. I believe it is you who need to take a look at it. I am sure, that like most Muslims you have never read the Quran in its entirety and have not read any book on the history of Muhammad and the expansion of Islam. Your knowledge is second hand and superficial. Just like all other Muslims, you started writing your rebuttal before reading the debates that I had with other Muslims and just like the majority of them you don’t know the Quran, the hadith or the history of Islam. I respond as I read and the reason I decided to respond to you is because you are a polite person. Had I read your entire message and realizing you have no knowledge of Islam and have not even read much from this site, I would not have responded.

If you don’t want to read this site, that is okay. But shouldn’t you read at least your own holy book before challenging me to debate? This debate is not even fair. Please increase your knowledge of Islam so we can have some meaningful debate.

Regards  Ali Sina’

EXTRACTS FROM http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/Zain50302.htm



http://www.naturestudio.net/love_or_belief.html

www.naturestudio.net
RECENT DIALOGUE WITH A MUSLIM
For a peaceful intelligent solution of Terrorism
You say whatever (even a link to Internet) in name of Allah... Is that Ok with Allah?



From Dialogue with a Muslim
RECENT
__Love or Belief


Dear believer, if you kill the ignorance, the ignorant is no more.!
Or would rather perpetuate ignorance?

Share Your Thoughts: 
Should Capital Punishment be Abolished?


Philosophic Community Project.
by van Chapman:

How can you ever know if another is happy with you if you keep'm in a cage?
It is not faith, but fear which keeps one encaging others, or being encaged.

He who would kill one for leaving  him, belongs to a mafia, not a religion.

Open question: -Is this the USA, is this the Islam, is this your country, is this you?
An attempt of a
Dialogue with a Muslim.
who rather stay anonyme.
Here I will call him Erci.


Here the latest recent exchange with this Muslim asking him if he backed up ISIS :
These talks and mail exchanges go as far back as 2005.
( I must still revise the texts for reading clarity, but here are some extracts to have an idea of this conversation:

______________________________________
From: G.
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 02:20:56 +0200
To: Erci
Subject: You know the tree by its fruit- More links!


"Muslims kill more people per year than 350 yrs of the Spanish Inquisition"
http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-religion-of-genocide-and-hate-more-people-are-killed-by-islamists-each-year-than-in-all-350-years-of-the-spanish-inquisition-combined/


Latest from a dialogue with a Muslim:
Love or belief? You know the tree by its fruit...
http://www.naturestudio.net/love_or_islam.html#love or islam

: - Dear Muslim, I worry about you. You certainly see the news, don't you?
Please let me know if you stand after what Isis is doing also!
Is that the Caliphate rule you talked about?  More links:


"Al Qaeda declares Jihad against India"
http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/a-message-from-a-former-muslim/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/frontline-isis-how-islamic-state-brainwashing-children-stone-age-school-curriculum-1463474

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/forgotten-isis-beheadings-world-mourns-steven-sotloff-who-remembers-bassam-al-raies-1464138



Your friend in love of truth
van Chapman
Philosophic Community Project


Self awareness is the only thing that can resolve fundamentalist religious terrorism. If one become aware of what truly is we call unquestionable authority or belief, one is free of it.
Let no belief hijack your mind or the truth of your heart!
******************************************************************************

The Muslim Erci answers:
In his broken English:

07, 2014 11:45 PM

You know the tree by its fruit- More links!

Dear Geraldine,
In The Name Of ALLAH, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful...
First of all its not muslims who kills but terrorist, you never could make the difference for almost 10 years now. So all you're arguments are groundless. And yes I follow the news, and if I'm not mistaking has the Arap Lige ( its the League of muslim counties) condemmed the actions of IS and called it terrorist actions and they declared cooporation to stop this terrorist group. So stop confusing things Geraldine.There are living muslims for 50 years now in Belgium and no one exlpode himself or killed people.So open you're mind and don't use stroman arguments hoping ill fall for them.Be smarter is my message to you   -By



***van Chapman G answers
You know the tree by its fruit- More links!
G:-

Dear Erci thank you for not supporting Isis!

But I could not know that.
-What you have been saying to me is that the Caliphate is to return, and the Islam will rule over all the peoples of the earth, what ISIS also says, only that you say that to me with a smile, and ISIS says it burning churches and mosques and killing innocent people as a way to reach this goal.
All the propaganda they make is against themselves and against the face of peace of Islam which you try to give to me, only that you contradict that peace by what you say.. The last thing you said to me when I asked you if you justified the horrors like the crucifixion of prisoners in the Koran (which is totally against the constitution in any civilized country) - you said, and these were your words: 'There must be a reason'...!
So what is the real difference between you and ISIS if you justify terrorism (no matter where it is written)?
Do you think everyone who sees that you contradict yourself are stupid?"




van Chapman
Philosophic Community Project
http://www.naturestudio.net/love_or_islam.html#love or islam



To me this is true sincerity, so rare these days!

From a Christian ex Muslim addressed to Obama -
I suggest you look at this video and answer what you think of it.
Click to see video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzOVSMUrGM



click to see video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzOVSMUrGM



Ten MORE Reasons Muhammad Is a False Prophet - David Wood & Sam Shamoun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVp29jA9eCo&list=PLDB147CA34BC46569
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxfFrAUBV-U&index=9&list=PL541446AABFB42242
Sent to this Muslim Erci:
Subject: Fw: Love your enemies versus kill your enemies
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 00:40:03 +0200

Ten MORE Reasons Muhammad Is a False Prophet - David Wood & Sam Shamoun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVp29jA9eCo&list=PLDB147CA34BC46569

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxfFrAUBV-U&index=9&list=PL541446AABFB42242


Answer from this Muslim Erci notice how he answer in a personal way but in name of Allah:
September 14, 2014 1:01 AM
In The Name Of ALLAH, The MosT Gracious, The MosT MercifuL,
You make me laugh Geraldine, really.
You ask me Jesus pbuh or Muhammed pbuh, we Muslims believe in all Prophets who were Send by ALLAH, even Mozes, Abraham, John The Baptist pbuh all.
So we accept them all.
But what really made me laugh is that i checked one of this video of 10 reasons that Muhammed pbuh is a False prophet and i listen to it, so he referred to the book of Buharie: volume 1, book 8 hadith nr 367, and i checked it. But the funny part is, that he is reading what is not there. That hadith is talking about praying.
You see how they fool you and will keep fooling you..
And pls. i told you, don't send me those messages, cause they are inaccurate.
Why do you like to stalk me?
Are you obsessed with me or with the Islam?
Dont you have peace in you're life?
Im about to think that you're going crazy
Im telling you to send me positive messages but you keep sending me all negative stuff.
Go and see a psychologist, i think you need one
Or maybe its time to block you cause there isn't any reason left in you
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G answers:
Is anyone honest, when they Must believe?
Muslims are taught by Mohammed to fear Islam or go to hell.
Muslims are the true islamophobes. I believe in sincere dialogue, not islamophobia.
I believe in in making sense, in being honest in a debate .
Who is being negative here?
You once said to me 'Every thing which is written in the Koran is true"

If the following is in the Koran: “There is no compulsion in religion" (2:256) and: "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good) (3:85), then yours is a hypocrite contradiction that will not only necessarilly divide people, but divide Muslims themselves forever, unitill they all kill each other for being unbelievers!
I say that: If anyone Must believe, especially that something that makes no sense is just, he cannot be honest, can he?
Christian Muslim or whatever, 'Whether it is Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, their followers or anyone, if you must believe them or they will kill you, how can their's be a religion of peace?'
The only solution is to be honest and distance yourself from the fear of seeing clearly!
David Wood is fair play. Discuss with him if you disagree with him!
[A word of warning for those who may find their version of Quran is translated differently from those appearing in this article: Almost all the translators of Quran have deliberately tried to soften the harsh verses of Quran. Yusufali especially goes out of his way to twists the meaning of the words and hide the harshness of Quran. For example he translates the verse (38:44) that says "take a green branch and beat your wife" as "take a little green grass and strike therewith". Or when he translates the verse (4:34) that says "beat your wife" he cannot help it but to add the word (lightly) in parenthesis.]

Humans are neglecting the responsibility to look critically at their beliefs and at themselves! Yes! we should be asking for example why people do not see as a problem the over population of the Earth by Humans and the toll on nature and our slave animals for consumption! !http://www.occupyforanimals.org/ban-religious-slaughter-throughout-europe.html

September 27, 2014
Subject: RE: Love your enemies versus kill your enemies

Erci answers:
In The Name of Allah, The MosT Gracious, The Most Merciful..
Check this out http://www.ted.com/talks/lesley_hazelton_on_reading_the_koran#t-559103
Greats
(he sends me alink to a Ted Talk on the Koran by a Jewish author lesley hazelton )
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:59:49 +0200

Answer 27, 2014
Geraldine (Naturestudio)
You say whatever (even a link to Internet) in name of Allah... Is that Ok with Allah?







Here is a proof of the contradictions
in name of God
in the so called holy books.


Extract from a dialogue with a Muslim.

THINK ERCI, Christ said 'love your enemies',
and 'who kills with a sword will be killed by the sword'.

If you believe in the Koran, who tells you to respect Christ, who said this,
and at the same time tells you to make war and to kill
and enslave your enemies, then you believe in what?
In a contradiction.




*
Did he tell his followers to convert by the sword, or did he say, "Those who use the sword will be killed by the sword"? .

If Jesus impeded Peter to use the sword, because (Matthew 26:52)
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.", he could not have said this;(Luke 19 :27)

'But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.'



****************************************************

According to the view of this author of Naturestudio,
(van Chapman), the voice of wisdom is  to kill the evil in man,
not to kill a man who has an evil.

True wisdom destroys not men,
true angels do not kill the evil men ,
  but the falseness and the evil in them.
...
The greatest enemy of man is his own proud arrogance
or pride and love of power,
and it is not through military victory over others
but through self awareness
that victory over ourselves is won.










*
*
PROJECT
Philosophic Community
*
What I try to say to this Muslim,
(even when he denies all evident violence in his holy book)
is this:
One does not clear someone's consciousness,
nor brings order to someone's thoughts
by cutting off his head.




Dialogue with a fanatic muslim
----- Original Message -----
From: van Chapman to Erci a Muslim Fanatic

Cc to the press: lezers de morgen ; knack ; standaard ; terzake@canvas.be




Dear Erci, if it interests you,

Found a site on internet where the innumerous attacks on Jews and Christians by Mohammed on the Koran, in name of God, as the author of the site declares, proofs that Muhammad's Quran is as UNGODLY as Hitler's Mein Kampf.
http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Total%20War.html

Be well.
G



NOTE

Dear Muslim, I can even know what you might say next, defending all the violence in the Koran against the freedom to see for oneself or beliefs other than the Islam, so I can already have the next question for you: are you saying that people have to sacrifice peaceful non violence for the sake of brutal violence in name of the Most forgiving and the religion of Peace?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX6cJueu9tw

Ten MORE Reasons Muhammad Is a False Prophet - David Wood & Sam Shamoun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4p7HuuhF8
WORLD News.
Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide.
This is good. But do they question the tyranny in their prophet or Koran??
Muslim suicide bombers not only kill themselves alone but also innocent people indiscriminately.
Is this the work  of true faith or pure irrational hate or despair?

Hate is the false prophet,
love is the true master.
There is no holy ground which
has been won
by cruel violence and hate.

Holy is the love and understanding
between all people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX6cJueu9tw

Ten MORE Reasons Muhammad Is a False Prophet - David Wood & Sam Shamoun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4p7HuuhF8 


Koran: “Slay the enemy where you find him" (Surah 9.92).



If by 'enemy' in the Koran it is meant  those who say: quote  Luke 6:[27]: " Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."), then atheists, Christians, or Hindus or Buddhists who will not kill another for a difference of belief, nor even a sheep, if they are vegetarians,  then Mohammed's  version of God is unacceptable and he, is a false prophet..

As I Krishnamurti said, the God of a Petty mind is a petty God.


van Chapman       
Philosophic Community Projects
www.naturestudio.net

The best wishes to all.
WORLD News.
Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide.
This is good. But do they question the tyranny in their prophet or Koran??
Muslim suicide bombers not only kill themselves alone but also innocent people indiscriminately.
Is this the work  of true faith or pure irrational hate or despair?

Hate is the false prophet,
love is the true master.
There is no holy ground which
has been won
by cruel violence and hate.

Holy is the love and understanding
between all people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX6cJueu9tw

Ten MORE Reasons Muhammad Is a False Prophet - David Wood & Sam Shamoun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4p7HuuhF8 


Koran: “Slay the enemy where you find him" (Surah 9.92).



If by 'enemy' in the Koran it is meant  those who say: quote  Luke 6:[27]: " Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."), then atheists, Christians, or Hindus or Buddhists who will not kill another for a difference of belief, nor even a sheep, if they are vegetarians,  then Mohammed's  version of God is unacceptable and he, is a false prophet..

As I Krishnamurti said, the God of a Petty mind is a petty God.


van Chapman       
Philosophic Community Projects
www.naturestudio.net

The best wishes to all.

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DIALOGUE WITH A MUSLIM
For a peaceful intelligent solution of Terrorism

Dear believer, if you kill the ignorance, the ignorant is no more!
Or would rather perpetuate ignorance?

Why perpetuate war, perpetuate ignorance?

Belief is not about clarity.



This was my conclusion after my dialogues with Muslims about Mohammed:

Mohammed called unbelievers hypocrites.
He could have clarified it,
if someone questioned him,
if someone questioned his belief,
But instead, he ordered
those who questioned him, those who disbelieved him
to be killed!

He had to kill them, his questioners,
not to admit his weaknesses and crimes.

He ordered killing others with stones 
for the same things
he justified himself to do.
Calling his unbelievers hypocrites!

The real hypocrites are those who rather kill than enlighten.
kill those who question, 
kill those who leave them,
kill unbelievers.
perpetuating
war on undesrtanding,
war on sincerity,
war on love,
war on justice
war on and truth,
perpetuating ignorance
for the sake of power,
perpetuating hate
in the name of wisdom, of God,

Perpetuating war in name of peace!

Unbelievers are not the hypocrites,
if all they want is to see the truth-

the true hypocrites are those
demanding unquestionable belief,
denying friendship and understanding
for the sake of belief.
blind obedience even in crimes
against humanity!


  Holy war? -Combat falsehood, not those who are false !
That is what saviours do, true fathers & mothers of mankind!

Rather than (Koran) :'kill unbelievers wherever you find them' ,
kill falsehood , wherever you find it - even in your holy books!

I ask Obama how can he reconcile civil freedom and human rights with its antithesis, the Islam ?
Will he say- 'Yes we can?'
No. Only fearless and total sincerity can solve this impasse. By turning a 'politically correct' blind eye to Islam, Obama cannot solve the ISIS problem at its root, in the consciousness.
Only pass the problem on to another...

Whether it is the Islamic State or the United States, the problem with anyone, any state, starts when they  forsake and prohibit self-critic honesty. ( turning an 'Islamic correct' or 'politically correct-blind eye' to their own incoherence). Incoherence with what we know is the way of love and love's Justice, simply out of self interests- that is when a religion becomes terrorism, and a state stops the fair peace process to become a tyrannical invading force! Dear Muslims and dear Mr. President, understand this, for the best of all.




van Chapman (van_chapman) | Twitter
The latest Tweets from van Chapman (van_chapman). True angels destroy not men, but the falseness in them...


http://www.naturestudio.net/love_or_belief.html


http://www.naturestudio.net/love_or_belief.html

www.naturestudio.net
DIALOGUE WITH A MUSLIM
For a peaceful intelligent solution of Terrorism

Dear believer, if you kill the ignorance, the ignorant is no more!
Or would rather perpetuate ignorance?

Why perpetuate war, perpetuate ignorance?

Belief is not about clarity.



This was my conclusion after my dialogues with Muslims about Mohammed:

Mohammed called unbelievers hypocrites.
He could have clarified it,
if someone questioned him,
if someone questioned his belief,
But instead, he ordered
those who questioned him, those who disbelieved him
to be killed!

He had to kill them, his questioners,
not to admit his weaknesses and crimes.

He ordered killing others with stones 
for the same things
he justified himself to do.
Calling his unbelievers hypocrites!

The real hypocrites are those who rather kill than enlighten.
kill those who question, 
kill those who leave them,
kill unbelievers.
perpetuating
war on undesrtanding,
war on sincerity,
war on love,
war on justice
war on and truth,
perpetuating ignorance
for the sake of power,
perpetuating hate
in the name of wisdom, of God,

Perpetuating war in name of peace!

Unbelievers are not the hypocrites,
if all they want is to see the truth-

the true hypocrites are those
demanding unquestionable belief,
denying friendship and understanding
for the sake of belief.
blind obedience even in crimes
against humanity!


  Holy war? -Combat falsehood, not those who are false !
That is what saviours do, true fathers & mothers of mankind!

Rather than (Koran) :'kill unbelievers wherever you find them' ,
kill falsehood , wherever you find it - even in your holy books!

I ask Obama how can he reconcile civil freedom and human rights with its antithesis, the Islam ?
Will he say- 'Yes we can?'
No. Only fearless and total sincerity can solve this impasse. By turning a 'politically correct' blind eye to Islam, Obama cannot solve the ISIS problem at its root, in the consciousness.
Only pass the problem on to another...

Whether it is the Islamic State or the United States, the problem with anyone, any state, starts when they  forsake and prohibit self-critic honesty. ( turning an 'Islamic correct' or 'politically correct-blind eye' to their own incoherence). Incoherence with what we know is the way of love and love's Justice, simply out of self interests- that is when a religion becomes terrorism, and a state stops the fair peace process to become a tyrannical invading force! Dear Muslims and dear Mr. President, understand this, for the best of all.




van Chapman (van_chapman) | Twitter
The latest Tweets from van Chapman (van_chapman). True angels destroy not men, but the falseness in them...


http://www.naturestudio.net/love_or_belief.html




True angels
destroy not men,
but the falseness in them.





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[Nature paintings-Myriam Vandenberghe]
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[Voice of eternal love-musical project]

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[Light over water a meditation on love Consciousness]

[What is relevant in Art for the world today ?]

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