DIALOGUE WITH A FANATIC MUSLIM
van Chapman
Philosophic community Project
www.naturestudio.net
WHO IS THROWING PEARLS TO THE SWINES?
Part of a long dialogue (at least since 2003 ) between van Chapman (Geraldine) and a Muslim from Gent I will call Erci.
COMMENTARY BASED ON THE HISTORY OF THIS DIALOGUE, most of which was previously published on this web site.
Here is an exchange (about the superiority or not of the Islam above every other creed), and about a portrait I made of him.
This Muslim Erci has a strange (wishful thinking) theory that simply does not make sense: That Mohammed, who went backwards to the barbarism of an 'eye to an eye' of Moses is the 'Consoler' promised by Jesus.
The Islam teaches you that the bloody Jihad against unbelievers (which is a crime against humanity) is from the most Compassionate God, and you may not question it or you are on the "death role" as an unbeliever.
This is the greatest contradiction in the Islam.
see
Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins
*********************************
NOTE: NEVER MIND THE SPELLING MISTAKES
Going back to September to October Exchanges
)
***
***Sent:, Oct 07, 2010 9:53 PM Subject: RE: E-mail verzenden: WHOSE IS A LIE
From Erci:- Dear Geraldine,
I told you manny times that the Qor'aan is not the word of Muhammed (pbuh) but the word of God.
And yes in some verses Allah has corrected his messenger, thats shows that its the word of God.
That is not new i have told you that manny manny times.
But you refused to beliieve it, you always said that Mohammed (pbuh) wrothe the Qor'aan.
Im happy that now you can make the difference.
About the other stories, you need to give me the references.
From wich book of the Hadith have you taken them.
We both know that the enemies of Islam have wrote so many lies about the Last Profet of Allah wich is Muhammed (pbuh).
So you need to give me references of those stories.
For example, if i tell you that Jesus (pbuh) said that you should slay my enemeis before me: ill give you references of the Bible.
( Gospel Sint luke, Book 19 verse 27)
When i said that there is cutting hands in the bible: ill give you the reference: Deuteronemy 25, verse 12.And so on.
So, if you want to tell me what the Profet Muhammed did or said, you need to give me referenced of the truthfull sources.
So dont come to me with stories you have found on the internet, i need sources.
Have a nice day
***
From: Geraldine (van Chapman)
9 Sep 2010 Subject WHOSE IS A LIE
Erci, hope you are fine.
Thanks for respecting my request (not to come to the atelier without appointment).
Iam trying to get a funds in Brussels for my photographic work.
Let you know if I get it. Here is a word document with some food for thought for you in your Koran
and Islam History about your Prophet. Tell me now who is lying.
***
G : 9 Oct 2010
Subject: some fruits from our fig tree to give you
-Have a nice day also Erci.
One of the pillars of the Islam is that Mohammed is your God's prophet,
that is, the speaker, the 'woordvoerder'. Not my God, because it is just hilarious to call someone
who punishes others by crucifying, cutting hands or stoning as 'the most Merciful' . C'est si simple.
By the way I have some fruits from our fig tree to give you if I can see you. In my website you will find
all references to the parts I quote and argue with.
See the link to this film you can look up on you tube about the trial of Geert Wilders:
Geert Wilders brilliant speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZyXkiQ-vn0
***
Oct 09, 2010 Subject: RE: some fruits from our fig tree to give you
From Erci:- Hello,
So im happy that you have agreed that the Qoraan is not the word of Muhammed (pbuh) but the Word of Allah ( God) Dear Geraldine, youre again telling lies, or youre thumb sucking, There is no crusifying in the Qoran. Can you show me the verse where there is crusifying please?????
And i wouuld love to tast some fruits of your garden.
Have a nice day
***
G : Oct 10, 2010 9:34 PM
When I said Mohammed was the 'woordvoerder',
I mean he is the one who decided the spirit who spoke to him was from God, from the spirit of Love,
but his version of the 'most Merciful' is absurd..
Here are the references you asked what 'the most Merciful' Allah asks the Muslims to do
to crucify non believers (who might be truly merciful); philosophic_community_project).
When I said Mohammed was the 'woordvoerder' of Allah,
I mean he is the one who decided the spirit who spoke to him was God, the spirit of Love,
but his version of the 'most Merciful' is absurd..
Here are the references you asked what' the most Merciful 'Allah asks the Muslims to do to crucify non believers (who might be truly merciful).
"Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam" Koran 5:33 By the way I do not pit against anyone. I just try my best honestly not to believe but to see clearly.
He who fights against reason and good sense fights against himself.
" The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power (5:33-34) "
Contrast that with something Jesus said: "But I say to you, love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. Be merciful as your Father is merciful. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Jesus, SON of God
***
10 Oct 2010 22:21:20 +020
From Erci:- But Geraldine, Jesus is not the Son of God, if you mean it like literally.
Even Jesus said that you should cut hands and even put youre eyebolls out.
Read Mattheuw. Jesus was just a Messenger, like Mozes, Abraham, Jakob, John the Babtise,
Like Mohammed (pbuh). I mean, i dont get youre point. i think youre getting paranoid again.
***
Answer from G:Oct 11, 2010 Subject: Re: some fruits from our fig tree to give you
-I am not a Jesus freak, nor anyone's.
I will only see what is, and not deny the contradictions for self defence,
as you as a Muslim must do because you MUST BELIEVE OR ELSE....
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam" Koran 5:33 Are you still living in the same place?
To a dear Muslim.
You said to me: 'I told you many times that the Koran is not the word of Muhammed (pbuh)
but the word of God. And yes in some verses Allah has corrected his messenger,
that shows that it is the word of God'.
If you are just logic, my friend, than that also means he Mohammed can have said something
as being from the other spirit (God) in the book,
and you do not know the difference because you may not see for yourself
because you are forced to believe that whatever is written is from God.
In the Islam you may not be a friend of nor discuss with unbelievers but you may slay them (5:33-34).
This shows the level of the spirit which Mohammed and the spirit he spoke for.
As I Krishnamurti said, the God of a Petty mind is a petty God. Be well.
***
G Answer: Oct 11, 2010 Subject: RE: some fruits from our fig tree to give you
From Erci:- Dear Geraldine, You should see it in his context.
Even Jesus said that you should slay my enemies before me: ill give you references of the Bible.
( Gospel Sint luke, Book 19 verse 27) So is that love ???
***
G Answer: 11 Oct
I am not a Jesus freak, nor anyone's.
I will only see what is, and not deny the contradictions for self defence,
as you as a Muslim must do because you MUST BELIEVE OR ELSE....
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam" Koran 5:33
Are you still living in the same place?
***
Erci October 11, 2010
Dear Geraldine,
From Erci:-I have to come to the conclusion that you dont know nothing about Christianity or Islam.
I think its useless to discuss with someone whos ignorant in these subject.
And the worst thing is, that you make statments that are based on lies, and then you want me answer them.
Im not gonna do that anymore.
Go to an university and study teology, or Islam and then we can have a more intellectual discussion.
I think that you as an artist should keep on painting and not try to do discussions about issues that youre ignorant of.
It would be good if you finish my portret instead of twaddling here.
Tell me when you can finish my portret.
***
G Answer: 12 Oct 2010
Listen to yourself: Before you say I am sucking my thumb because there is no crucifying in the Koran as you denied the stoning in the Sharia.
When I show it to you, you then say it is its right. You act like a doll, a puppet, not a true human being, thanks to your belief.
In China, where serious breaches on Human rights are a concern for the rest of the world, I also MUST ALSO BELIEVE AND NOT CRITICIZE THEIR COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT OR ELSE....AND THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE PROTECTING CITIZENS.
BUT IF IT IS WRITTEN IN THE KORAN (5:33) "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam" Koran . YOU SIMPLY WILL "JA KNIKKEN", say amen.
You now say "Muslims have the right to murder or crucify to defend their society" who think their barbaric law will prevail over all other societies in world, even above those who will never murder or crucify others, who are truly compassionate like some, for example followers of Gandhi or Buddhists (non believers) for the Islam.
HOW CAN I MAKE YOUR PORTRAIT? YOU FIRST LIKED THE PORTRAIT I MADE OF YOU, THEN I MUST CHANGE THE EYES AND THE NOSE. BUT YOU WILL NOT BE FILMED WHEN I WORK ON YOUR PORTRAIT, AS I PROPOSED. WHEN I WILL ASK YOU IF YOU WILL DEFEND THAT LAW OF CUTTING HANDS STONING OR CRUCIFYING AND IF YOU BECOME A LAWYER IN BELGIUM. WHERE IS YOUR REAL FACE ERCI?
***
G Answer: Oct 13, 2010 Subject: E-mail blue tit on the window.jpg
ERCI, You like to call me stupid but look well, the context is in the sentence itself:
(5:33) "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam"
(maim, Wikipedia: cripple, mutilate, batter, mangle mean to injure so severely as to cause lasting damage.
maim implies the loss or injury of a bodily member through violence <maimed by a shark)
This is what the mafia and Nazis and tyrants often have done to those who show them what they do wrong, instead of being grateful.
You do not have to believe in me.
I do not ask belief from you or anyone but good will to understand and sincerity.
This is the fundamental difference between your Prophet-Koran-God and myself.
If you tell me how to correct the spelling in my writing, I thank you. I am grateful for enlightened criticism,
but not for your and your Prophet-Koran-God's self- defence-'rond de pot draaien'.
Who is risking his life is me and not you.
You asked me to hide your true face from my website in our discussions around love or belief.
I am open and I have a photo of myself in our discussion on the web,
for the sake of truth and love, not out of self defence.
I am not going to crucify you if you criticize my way of seeing.
I just clarify myself when you confuse the things I say.
You are hiding your true face. How can I make a portrait of you?
The truth is being more important to me than self defence.
For you the opposite is true therefore I cannot make your portrait.
I want to work on your portrait in the condition that you can be finally openly sincere and say this before a camera.
We can make an appointment If you agree to do it before the camera. Call me for an appointment if you agree.
You can have some fruit from our fig tree if you come, but do not take too long or there will be none left.
In the photos a lovely house visitor.
G.
***
G Answer: October 14, 2010 4:01 AM
Subject: E-mail verzenden: pigeonmin in Naturestudio.JPG
-If a spirit, whether a chief of state, king, prophet or God,
condemns honest critic, questioning (unbelief) and discussion but
would rather promote violence and war (like the Jihad), it cannot be truly intelligent .
It cannot be of love.
So it cannot bring true peace to all people on the Earth.
Is it too dangerous to stand beside someone who says this ?
***
Oct 14, 2010 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: E-mail verzenden: pigeonmin in Naturestudio.JPG
From Erci:- Dear Geraldine,
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful...
Like i told you manny manny times, i never claimed that Islam was Love.
You always said it wasnt love and try to prove me that.
We believe that Allah is Justice. You should read the 99 names of Allah and look what they mean.
Love is not one of Them.
Thats our different, you believe in Love, i believe In Allah.
And thats how our discussion will end.
When we come to the portret, i really think its awful that you put conditions to me for finishing the portret.
Why didnt you put those conditions before we starter, or better before i payed you.
So i dont agree with youre conditions and im goning to give you youre portret back.
I want my money back.
Give me a date and hour when youre home so i can come and give you youre portret.
Have a nice day furter.
***
G Answers: Oct 14, 2010
Subject: Re: E-mail verzenden: pigeonmin in Naturestudio.JPG
-Dear Erci There is no justice without love and for me there is no God who orders to kill someone for a critic.
And it is non sense calling someone "the most merciful"' who cannot forgive and orders to lapidate to death someone who even confessed.
that is in the history of Mohamed I have already shared with you before.
I am sure if you saw a person being stoned to death you would not find it just.
I cannot understand what is wrong with the hearts of fanatics of such belief.
I think it is just fear.
You can have your portrait for free. I told you before I will give you your money back when I get subsidies, because I am broke. Be well.
One day you will give me right:
You might like to see our last exchanges under your false name ERCI on the web.
Thank you for answering my questions all these years.
Maybe someone, reading our discussions,
will stop the fear that leads to unquestioning obedience even in a horrific crime.
If a spirit, whether a chief of state, king, prophet or God,
condemns honest critic, questioning (unbelief) and discussion but
would rather promote violence and war (like the Jihad), it cannot be truly intelligent .
The God of a narrow mind is a narrow minded God.
as Krishnamurti said.
PS: If one must agree with God in such crimes as lapidating, crucifying for a critic,
you can keep your paradise.
Let God himself stone people. I will not do this filthy job for him.
Disbelief in this case is my right.
***
Erci sent Oct 14, 2010 10:43 PM
Subject: RE: E-mail verzenden: pigeonmin in Naturestudio.JPG
In The Name OF ALLah, The Most Gracious, The Most MercifuL,
This is the True Love, That you submitt your will to the WiLL of ALLah (cc). What ever the critic may be.
I Love Allah and he Loves me. (Elhamdulillah)
I understand that you cant understand it, cause He didnt touched youre heart.
The Qoraan Teaches us that people like you, (christians) will never stop till we become one of Them.
So Geraldine, even if whole the world doesnt believe in Allah and His Final Messenger
Muhammed (pbuh), ill sill be the one who does.
I have studied comparatieve religion, pls dont talk to me about Jesus (pbuh) as the Son of God.
He wasnt even Crusified, i can prove that to you.
The bible is not the Word of God, i can prove that to you.
The bible talks about Mohammed (pbuh). i can prove that to you.
Jesus Crist was a Might Messenger, He never Claimed to be God, and He never said worship me. So pls stop the crap.
Nevertheless, thanks for the discussion, now i know how a disbeliever thinks about us.
It was a good experience for me.
May Allah guide us All closer to the Truth.
May Allah bless you.
ps: thanks for the portret and i hope to recieve me money soon. by
***
G Answers: Oct 15, 2010 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: E-mail verzenden: pigeonmin in Naturestudio.JPG
Dear Erci,
If you are proud of and you stand after what you say,
can I publish a photo and portrait I have made of you with other portraits I have on my web page?
You are a student of international Right.
Do I have to tell you that there is no JUST judgment or trial where you cannot argue?
Only with a tyrant or a Nazi or Mafia leader one MAY NOT REASON.
Those who pretend they know and you don't, like your prophet and his version of God.
Unfortunately they also capture the unreasonable minds and 'hearts' of many followers in committing horrible crimes.
Torturing, lapidating, crucifying someone for a critic is a horrible crime. KORAN (5:33) "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam"
What I been telling you these years is that Everyone has a different version of God, even among Muslims, just look at the wars between them.
But love is just ONE. And in discussing LOVE it would be absurd to say -Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize whatever.
I am still hoping you will see that one day.
The Holy Spirit of love is the only which inspires me surrender,
not a senseless contradiction in name of God as you believe in.
Your friend in the love of truth
G.
Ersi Sent Oct 15, 2010 1:34 PM
Dear Geraldine,
You cannot publish any portret or picture of me.
I have red the verse you have been talking about in 5:33, it doesnt talk about criticize islam.
You should wright the correct verse.
Bu i thought we have finished the discussion.
Dont start again.
***
G Answer: Oct 15, 2010
If I may not publish your real name nor your face on with our discussion,
you do not stand for what you say in public yet.
Are you deceiving people to think you will be a true lawyer in an European Court of Law?
(Qur'an 5:33). Ibn Kathir says of this verse: "'Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief'
"Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off,
or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33)
If one stands for truth and clarity and denounces the contradictions in the book of ALLAH,
Muslims are not to hear it from Allah and his prophet? This is typical deceit of slave keepers and wrong doers.
I say to oppose clarity and reason is to fight justice.
to stand for truth and clarity is to fight contradiction.
G.
***
Erci Sent Oct 15, 2010
Subject: RE: E-mail verzenden: pigeonmin in Naturestudio.JPG
Dear Geraldine,
Let me know when you can pay me back my 200 € Have a nice day
If God is Mercifull why did he create hell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agxklb1fj4s
You should start discusse with Dr. Zakir Naik.
He will give you better answers then me.
A vers in the Koran can only be understood if you take the whole context seriouly.
And that is what you dont do. I hope you will publish that to.
You take something out of his context and try to build a story about it.
Thats incorrect. I told you manny manny times that you need to understand why this verse is send and for what it can be used.
You cant generelise a verse.
It seems im talking to a wall.
It means that you need to do more research before you make statements about verses.
by
***
G Answers:
Anyone can create a hell, the way is simple: Enforce rules with torture and murder, above all, unjust rules
For example, instead of working only for the enlightenment of people,
wanting to have power over them, cost what costs, even at the cost of love and justice.*
Real loyalty is to see someone as he is, not to agree to whatever he says or does.
Someone who sincere criticizes is the real friend,
so when Mohammed and Mohammed's Allah say kill those who criticize me, he orders to kill their true friends.
* For example making a rule that it is proper and holy to buy a woman (including children) as a wife as one buys cows ('vrouwenhandel'), that I can possess, violate the women after killing their family, that one and one's followers can have slaves, and sex with slaves as he wishes, and as many wives as he can afford, up to five , but women are property and have no right to have another man, and must be stoned if they try to escape, together with the one who steals her, and one may not question but think it is holy to kill, torture lapidate or crucify anyone who fights to be free, who criticises those rules based on prejudice, unequal rights , slavery and possessiveness and above all on utter pride.
If you include all messengers of God and see the insurmountable contradictions and hopeless conflicts they created it is very simple because there is no questioning what they said, to those who are loyal to them.
Look at the conflict around Hebron, in Palestine, Jews say some where God said that land was for the chosen people the Jews. And these steal the land from Palestinians who lived there.
Somewhere God said Mohamed 's followers were the chosen ones, and they should dominate by force over the enemies of his rule.. This is how hell is created.
http://www.muslimhope.com/WhyDidMohammedGetSoManyWives.htm
Muslims will tell you a Muslim man can have up to four wives at a time, based on Sura 4:3. Strictly speaking that is not the complete truth, as a Muslim can also have unlimited concubines and can have sex with "women their right hands possess". (Sura 23:5-6; 33:50,52; 4:24; Sura 70:29-30). Regardless, though, Mohammed recited a verse in the Qur'an (Sura 33:50) that made an exception for one individual: himself.
Mohammed's Wives
Here is a list of wives of Mohammed by the Muslim scholar Ali Dashti. He probably based much of this on an earlier list in the History of al-Tabari vol.9 p.126-241. It should be mentioned that scholars and Hadiths are not entirely agreed on the wives of Mohammed. For example some hadiths (not Bukhari or Sahih Muslim) mention a couple of wives of Mohammed that he divorced, and these are not shown here. Nonetheless, Ali Dashti's list, while perhaps not entirely agreed upon as being comprehensive, shows many of the wives. Following this is the evidence from the hadiths, independent of Ali Dashti, for these relationships.
1. Khadija/Khadijah bint Khuwailid/Khywaylid - died first
2. Sauda/Sawda bint Zam'a
3. 'Aisha/Aesha/'A'ishah - 8 to 9 yrs old, 2nd wife
'Aisha's Slaves
'Aisha and the Battle of the Camel
4. Omm/'Umm Salama/Salamah
5. Hafsa/Hafsah
6. Zaynab/Zainab of Jahsh
7. Juwairiya/Jowayriya bint Harith (captive)
9. Safiya/Safiyya bint Huyai/Huyayy bint Akhtab (captive)
10. Maymuna/Maimuna of Hareth
11. Fatima/Fatema/Fatimah (briefly)
12. Hend/Hind (widow)
13. Asma of Saba (Sana bint Asma')
14. Zaynab of Khozayma
15. Habla?
16. Divorced Asma of Noman / bint al-Nu'man
¾slaves / concubines ¾
17. Mary the Copt/Christian
18. Rayhana/Raihana/Rayhanah bint Zayd/Zaid
uncertain relationship -
19. Divorced Omm Sharik
20. Maymuna/Maimuna (slave girl?)
21. Zaynab/Zainab the third?
22. Khawla / Khawlah
23. Divorced Mulaykah bint Dawud
24. Divorced al-Shanba' bint 'Amr
25. Divorced al-'Aliyyah
26. Divorced 'Amrah bint Yazid
27. Divorced an Unnamed Woman
28. Qutaylah bint Qays (died right away)
29. Sana bint Sufyan
30. Sharaf bint Khalifah
31. Women of Mohammed's Right Hand
Mohammed Turned Some Women Down
Some Women Turned Mohammed Down
¾ Ali Dashti missed at least nine possible other wives.
Mohammed married 15 women and consummated his marriages with 13. (al-Tabari vol.9 p.126-127)
http://www.muslimhope.com/WhyDidMohammedGetSoManyWives.htm
FROM GERALDINE TO ERCI:
TO HAVE ALL THESE WOMEN IS MAYBE A GOOD REASON FOR SOME MEN TO FIGHT AND KILL FOR ALLAH?
***
Eci October 16, 2010 11:36 PM
Subject: RE: to create hell just enforce unjust rules with torture and murder(Sura 23:5-6; 33:50,52; 4:24; Sura 70:29-30).
Dear Geraldine,
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.
Im gonna let you read Chapter 109 of The Holy Qor'aan, (The Word of Allah)
Translations of the Qur'an, Surah 109:
AL-KAFIROON (THE DISBELIEVERS, ATHEISTS)
Total Verses: 6
Revealed At: MAKKA
109.001
YUSUFALI: Say : O ye that reject Faith!
PICKTHAL: Say: O disbelievers!
SHAKIR: Say: O unbelievers!
109.002
YUSUFALI: I worship not that which ye worship,
PICKTHAL: I worship not that which ye worship;
SHAKIR: I do not serve that which you serve,
109.003
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor worship ye that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
109.004
YUSUFALI: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
PICKTHAL: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
SHAKIR: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
109.005
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
109.006
YUSUFALI: To you be your Way, and to me mine.
PICKTHAL: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
SHAKIR: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
You have youre belief i have My belief.
Show me youre love by respecting my religion, ill do the same thing for you.
As a conclusion i can say,
You believe in Love, and i Believe in the Creator of everything an anything including Love.
So i believe in the Creator in what you believe.
Ciao...
G Answers: Oct 17, 2010 1:57 AM
Subject: You may not criticize the Islam, no matter what your heart says....
TO HAVE ALL THESE WOMEN IS MAYBE A GOOD REASON FOR SOME MEN TO FIGHT AND KILL FOR ALLAH?
- May you criticize the Islam, no matter what your heart says?
(5:33) "Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam' a sign of respect for other beliefs?
The truth is that the prejudice of Islam existed before I was born.
Is In the first place the Islam what incites to hate condemning all other ways which are not the Islam, even against love,
so do not turn things around.To do so is indeed evil.
As a conclusion I can say, that if you and your followers continue denying the evidence of contradiction with love and truth in self defending in your belief, I am ready to be a martyr for love and reason and truth.
To me I regret to say, if you are asked to kill me for it, for criticizing the hypocrisy I see in what you believe to be the most compassionate who finds it just to crucify people for an honest critic, you are a victim (or a martyr for if you prefer), an unquestionable pride of domination and power even against truth, love and reason.
Is it worth while?
Courage my friend.
To distinguish good from evil.
It is just a matter of a change of consciousness, of heart.
To follow another blindly with fear of distinguishing anything for yourself is to be a slave intend on creating more slavery.
"Know the truth and the truth will set you free."
john 8:32
***
October 17, 2010 12:23 PM
From Eci:-
Subject: RE: - May you criticize the Islam, no matter what your heart says?
Dear Geraldine,
In The Name oF ALLaH, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful,,
I have found the Truth and it setted me free, it seems you didnt found it.
Here you have a text about, What the Bible Says About Muhammed (pbuh)
I hope that you will publish this text also on your website and not play fals, that you just put youre own text on and not all my texts.
May Allah guide us Closer To the Truth (InshaLLah)
***
G Answers: Oct 17, 2010 2:48 PM
Subject: the truth is you are not free to reason unless you want to
- Good day Erci,
I read what you sent me in an attachment...
Let me re assure you that if the positions were inverted, and Mohammed had said God wants us to
'love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44),
instead of saying God wants you to (Qur'an:9:5),
"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them', even if he was of human birth, I would agree with Mohammed.
And even if Jesus was born of a miracle if he taught God wants you to kill unbelievers wherever you would find them,
I would not believe him because I am free of authority in a spiritual way.
But the truth is that you justify something not because your heart tells you it is just, but because so and so said it.
As many believers of many conflicting beliefs also do,
those who think so will never meet one another through reason therefore the logic unintelligent solution is violence, the Jihad.
Look around the history of the world religions, at what happens in Iraq and Afghanistan even today,
between people who believe in the same Koran.
I ask understanding, not compulsion in belief as Mohammed taught when he wanted power.
You think because you are a man and a Muslim and I am a woman you can reason more clearly than I, but you are wrong.
You will not have the last words as long as I can write freely, unless you cut my head off,
as Mohammed would have done in his barbaric time because I question or criticize him.
You will not do that I hope, because you are more civilized.
But even if you have the last word, or you are the last prophet, to me it is who makes sense the one who has right.
Hope you get what I say .I have more things to do.
Have a lovely day.
G.
***
October 21, 2010
Subject: RE: the truth is you are not free to reason unless you want to
From Erci:- A Concise Reply To Christianity
October 19, 2010
Subject: Is The Bible The Word oF God??
From Erci:- Check it ouf if the Bible is the Word of God.
I hope you will publish these texts i have sended you,
I will check your website and see how honest you are ??
Have a nice day
***
G Answers: : Sun, 17 Oct 2010 Subject: the truth is you are not free to reason unless you want to
- Erjan, Give me the link to it on the web and I dont mind to.
Saw in a documentary of the Chinese occupation of Tibet, Chinese officials,
claiming to come to liberate the people of Tibet, have done a Communist Jihad against
those who opposed communism taking a people so compassionate they would never even slay someone
even in self defence, not even kill an animal to eat,
giving them a fire weapon and forcing them, even if it was a child, to shoot and kill their parents.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/15/world/asia/15tibet.html
The Islam teaches you that the bloody Jihad against unbelievers (which is a crime against humanity)
is from the most Compassionate God and you may not question it or you are on the death role as an unbeliever,
and this is the greatest contradiction in the Islam.
Oct 23, 2010 6:21 PM
Subject: Islamic Art exhibition..
From Erci:- http://www.presstv.ir/detail/147869.html
G answers October 24, 2010 1:10 AM
Subject: Fw: Islamic Art exhibition..
(to the link on Islamic art)
This is not the internet link to the source of your theory about your last Prophet,
however one must give credit to artists, no matter in what culture they were born.
Note: in name of the the teachings of Mohammed, the Taliban,have actually destroyed treasures
of ancient art and prohibited the beautiful music culture, even of their own people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
In December 1998 the Tehrik-i-Tuleba or Movement of Taliban in the Orakzai Agency
ignored Pakistan’s legal process and publicly executed a murderer in front of 2,000 spectators.
They also promised to implement Taliban-style justice and ban TV, music and videos.[46]
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0301-04.htm KABUL - Ignoring an international outcry,
Afghanistan's puritanical Taliban Islamic militia began demolishing statues across the country
on Thursday, including two towering ancient stone Buddhas.
He said militiamen started wrecking the almost 2,000-year-old Buddhist masterpieces
in the central province of Bamiyan, including the world's tallest standing Buddha measuring 50 meters (165 feet), after sunrise.
"The work started about five hours ago but I do not know how much of it (the two Bamiyan Buddhas) has been destroyed,"
Jamal said. "It will be destroyed by every means. All the statues are being destroyed."
( Erci believes that to go backwards to the barbarism of an eye to an eye of Moses is to be the 'consoler' Jesus promissed to send.:)
Here is the link to this absurd and retrograd theory: http://islamworld.net/docs/Muhammad.in.Bible.html)
-About your theory that Mohammed is the last prophet, Christ also spoke of the anti Christ and the false prophets.
Prophets appear in abundance in every age on the world scene and we are not in the end yet..
You can see that spiritually the basic teachings of Christianity and Islam are worlds apart:
About your theory that Mohammed is 'the consoler', the successor of Christ in the Bible, is a matter of mentality.
'Love your enemies' The Christ's teaching's cornerstone has nothing in common with the Islam's 'kill them wherever you find them'.
If you find the second more divine than the second, it speaks of your level of evolution, nothing more.
Ridiculous indeed that 'the consoler' says God tell us to 'kill our enemies them wherever we find them'.
Do you not see ?
***
October 24, 2010
Subject: RE: Islamic Art exhibition..
From Erci:- But Jesus said aswell, that who dont accept me as the king, bring them here ans slay them before me.
Why you never speak about that???????
Or dont you believe the bible????
Jesus said aswell to cut the hands!!! why dont you speak about that???
But the most different about Jesus Christ (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) is that Jesus Christ (pbuh)
was not send to the mankind, but only to the Jews, (to the last cheep of the House of Israil), and Mohammed (pbuh) was send to the mankind.
You speak about fals profets, but the bible says that if a profet accepts Jesus as Christ that he's a true profeth.
Listen to this as a respond to is Muhammes (pbuh) mentioned in the bible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhazm0UdlTc&p=D26C301D9EC6B1B6&playnext=1&index=12 , look at all of them.
And this is What the bible says about mohammed : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPrkUNiAS0U&feature=channel
***
G Answers: : Sun, 17 Oct 2010 October 24, 2010
Subject: USE YOUR REASON
-USE YOUR REASON, DEAR ERCI, and do not importune others. So you can exhaust even a saint.
All you asked me I have already answered you many times previously. Even very recently.
If you ask me such questions you do not consider me worthy of consideration to read what I tried to say to you all these years, or make a deaf ear, pretending you do not understand, or you really have a severe mental or spiritual handicap.
If even in so many years you cannot listen or understand to a clear but different point of view,
you can never become a balanced lawyer but only a one sided mental bully,
Please re-read what I said to you all these years if you really did not get it, and give me rest.
Have a nice day.
G.
***
October 24, 2010 11:52 PM
Subject: RE: USE YOUR REASON
From Erci:-Dear Geraldine,
You make statements without taking the context seriously.
Then you expect me to answer your statements wich are incorrect.
Then you refere to verses of the Bible, ( knowing that the bible is not the word of God)
Then you say Jesus is love, is the spirit of love.
When i give you verses that Jesus said that you should slay them before me,
that Jesus said you should cut hands and even put youre eyes out.
You dont want to comment on them.
So is there diaologe possible with you????? Are you good in your mind? Maybe you need a doctor??
I think you need some professional help.
***October 31 OCTOBER 2010
Answer from Geraldine to ERCI:
Erci, How many times to I have to comment on the same thing?
Typical of (ego) self-defending males is wanting to tell another what,
while not really being open to hear what the other is trying to say, even with hands and feet.
'The God of a petty mind is a petty God'. (Said Krishnamurti).
What you do not seem to understand is that the cause of stealing is in the mind and heart and not in the hand or eyes.
It does not help to remove hands or eyes if deceit remains in your mind and tongue.
( The late Sheikh Ahmed Yassin , blind leader from Hamas said,
"I pray for the death of my enemies" instead of praying for the understanding of his enemies.)
BUT OK, I will answer once more. Be considerate enough to listen:
Yes, I take seriously the context, in the context of a form of relationship.
IT IS STUPIDITY AND HIPOCRISY to call 'THE MOST MERCIFUL'
to a husband who stones his wife for jealousy if she goes with another,
more so when he is the husband or lover to five or thirteen women like Mohammed (in name of Allah?).
IT IS STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRISY to call "the MOST WISE"
to a teacher who tortures his students to death if they do not do well (in this sometimes short life's exam).
IT IS STUPIDITY AND HYPOCRISY to call "THE GREATEST"
to a father so hateful HE NEVER FORGIVES FOR ALL ETERNITY,
sending to eternal hell his children because they were not wise,
or questioned and did not believe for example in his or the prophet's compassion.
Jesus was a Jew in the tradition of Moses, tradition which inspired your Prophet.
The God of the Old Testament asked for and liked bloody sacrifices, and the smell of blood and meat!
(In Exodus 29 ,38-42) (In Leviticus 1:2).
That was in the Old Bible, in the primitive minds. (Like one should sacrifice a sheep in Mecca to God).
Jesus , according to the account of evangelists, evolved from unreasonable intolerance
as you mentioned, and violence and God damning to more humble self sacrifice and compassion,
while your prophet did the opposite, started with tolerance (to each his belief),
and when he came to power, evolved towards murder in self-defence even for a critic ( 9:29),
and self indulgence, what you as a Muslim bigot deny every time, (just see all the women he had sexually,
five or thirteen ones and how many people he had stoned to death for double play.):
'fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians)
if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians)
with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. Koran ( 9:29).
To any sensible person that is discrimination which is calling to hate, to mass murder as a criminal method
of domination typical of a Nazi ideology.
If the Father, the God of the Old tradition, was truly greater than the Son Jesus,
the son (at the cross) would not have had to ask God to forgive those who sinned.
God should have known that.
But in the end, the Son, through love, humbleness and consciousness,
became greater than himself and the Old tradition.
The one who hates so much as to send anyone eternally to hell is not greater,
nor wiser, nor more merciful than the one who understood the futility of hate
the horrible pride of one who silences all questioning and critical opposition with torture and death as (in Koran, 9:29).
The Son was wiser than the father.
Jesus did not want to revenge for eternity, as his father,
but, believing in the essential goodness of all consciousness and full of true compassion, he forgave the sinners for their ignorance:
"Father, Forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing" Luke 23:34.
To me this is Divine. This is new in the history of the tradition of Moses.
Whether a book is the word of God or not, what matters is whatever makes sense, spiritually.
To go back to the tremendous violence and eternal hate of Hell of the punishments in the mind of Moses
(after Jesus has set a great step towardqs evolution)
is like denying humanity, going back perhaps to our Chimpanzee ape-like cannibalism.
To say 'fight a criminal Jihad agaist humanity, (as well as against the people of the Scriptures
-Jews and Christians- if they do not go backwards to eternal revenge and hate),
even if you call him the 'Last Prophet', is not to have said the last word.
If eternal burning in hell is what you consider to be more just as a punishment for the errors of your wife,
students or children who did not do good in this (sometimes too short) life's exam,
it is your problem and theirs, also if they have to deal with you.
And of course, if you are honest in meaning this is Justice, the crucifying and stoning alive
barbaric violence of Sharia laws, and you will not question it, you will never pass the exams
to become a layer in Belgium, so you have to lie and hide your true face,
and tell me to camouflage your eyes in my portrait of you..
Hope you are satisfied now with my answer.
While inquiring on the Old testament I came across this:Quote:
Another quote: 'The true Prophets who protested against the sacrificial cult most definitely did not recognize Leviticus 1-7. End Quote.
Another quote: In Isaiah 1:11 God explicitly states that fat of the sacrifice does not please Him. He claims that He does not delight in it. But the deceived Jews believed that the fat and blood was the sweet odor to His nostrils. In Isaiah 43:23 [Greek Septuagint] God says that He did not desire the fat of their sacrifices. God does not depend on food and drink. He is transcendent - self sufficient. Can't you realize that the self-sufficient and immortal being cannot possibly depend on food for nourishment?' End quote http://www.all-creatures.org/discuss/didabel.html
From the article: Did Abel or Cain Offer a Lamb in Sacrifice to God?
By John Vujicic (who speaks of an Essene Humane Gospel)
Nederlandse Koran http://www.freewebs.com/gvo/koran_vh.pdf
***
Dear Geraldine,
its to small i cant read it.
can you write it bigger.
Thank you
Dear Erci now I have a Nederland's Index page on our website with of the last things I wrote. Myriam has translated it for me.
If I always say the same thing, in a way, again and again, is in the hope that this time around you and other religious fanatics will get it.
ABRAHAMM's Story: THE BEGINNING AND THE END OF BLIND OBEDIENCE EVEN IN A CRIME.
If anyone first orders you not to hate and not to kill, and then, (instead of promoting healthy understanding through questioning what is and what is not just), commands you to hate and make war against and kill unbelievers, is this not a contradiction?
Abraham was tested for obedience by having been asked to murder his own son, then, a sheep instead, a story celebrated by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike: the beginning of monotheism. This particular story means the beginning of the blind faith and blind following even in a crime.
As I have explained in the 'vegetarian meditation on the Islam', why MUST we kill a sheep to eat if one can live as a vegetarian?
Why MUST we obey whoever or whatever without questioning?
Why should one follow orders from anyone which we find are not just, even if we are threatened do be murdered if we don't?
The same blind following and blind faith even in a crime will be also the end of the Monotheism, because blindly following the same tradition, irrationally, for the slightest difference of meaning or interpretation, murderous opposition and bloody war is created and not the questioning dialogue which could be enlightening and peace bringing. Do we follow someone blindly to be in peace with one's consciousness or because this someone threatens us?
If we can be free to question anyone authority with the sincerely of our heart's consciousness, why should we follow blindly someone who contradicts himself? Because we are threatened?
Killing in the name of God is this tyrant-like irrational attitude is no more than the product of servitude to thought,
as my dear J. Krishnamurti would say.
Product of human pretence and irrational, unwise and uncompassionate human pretence.
In looking for the divine love and justice, one must rise upon fear and stop being a slave to forces of darkness and terror.
The law of an eye for an eye is barbaric.
If there is a spiritual justice, it is not that we must blind someone who has made another blind,
simply that someone who did so intentionally was spiritually blind.
The truth is not we need not retribute a crime with another crime since every crime has in itself its (spiritual) retribution.
The awareness of this spiritual blindness is its only cure.
Spiritual awareness is the only cure for the harm caused by hate, fanaticism, blind irrational beliefs.
Then we will be truly free to separate the corn from the shaft, free, without servitude to what is said or written anywhere
and we may distinguish the treasures of love's wisdom from the unworthy servitude or vain love for power anywhere, even Sacred books.
A love-based justice lawyer-judge promotes rehabilitation of people, not their destruction.
Promotes the awakening of consciousness of love and human rights,
rather than justification of with irrational murderous revenge slavery over people through marriage or belief .
C'est clair et simple!
The Holy spirit would not have justified Moses nor Mohammed
in the violent bloody Jihad they committed against those who did not believe them.
Anyone who commits acts of violence against others even in religious or territorial disputes,
does so without the approval of the Holy Spirit:
'Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you'. 'My kingdom is not of this world'.
So what kind of faith would support violation and killing for a belief or for terrestrial possessions?
The Taliban will rather despise the evolution brought by Christ's forgiveness of sin
to go back to the primitive and barbarian anti human punishments of the Torah or the Sharia law.
Concerning terrorism and Islamic jihad, there is not so much difference between the two interpretations
by Muslims of Jihad as a "spiritual" or as a "physical war".
Whether you impose a belief with torture, sword or fire or with simply spiritual irrationality and unquestionability,
it is barbaric and inhuman violence.
WORLD News.
Comment by van Chapman
LIBYA The historic nonsense of tyranny.
23 February 2011
Estimated- 1000 dead so far. Gaddafi called his supporters
to kill anyone who takes arms against Libya,
meaning people who continue to protest against his rule.
Arabs are questioning tyranny worldwide. This is good.
But do they question the tyranny in their prophet or Koran??
Muslim suicide bombers not only kill themselves but innocent people indiscriminately.
Is this the work of true faith or pure irrational hate or despair?
'A Muslim who commits acts of violence in jihad does so with the approval of Muhammad.
' http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/news-jerry-falwell-mohammed.html
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