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You say your Allah is Great,

but I say true love is Greater!

LOVE OR ISLAM?
Love or the Islam ?



What I try to say to say to this Muslim, and his God Allah is:
  One does not clear someone’s consciousness,
 nor brings order into someone’s thoughts
  by cutting off his head.

 

 "THE GOD OF A PETTY MIND IS A PETTY GOD''
as once said a wise man called Krishnamurti.

Anno 1899

Churchill on Islam . ‘No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.’

Since politicians and neocons like to make themselves seem strong when responding to Muslim terrorism by joining themselves to the ghost of Winston Churchill, it would be appropriate to see what Churchill himself thought about Islam. This is from his 1899 book, The River War, written when he was 24 years old:

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.¿A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities ... but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.
[The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pp. 248-50.]
ANSWER TO THE THREAT OF A MUSLIM

'Very often apologetics claim that, Islam is a religion of peace
 and there is no compulsion. Yet, punishment of an apostate in Islam is,
 of course, death penalty ' 

Contradictions in the Koran: FROM THE WEB SITE ISIS

ONE HAS NO CHOICE IN THE ISLAM, TO CHOOSE FOR JUSTICE,

IF IT IS NOT "LOVE ME OR LEAVE ME", BUT "LOVE ME OR I WILL MURDER YOU."

(…)": 9:29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day,
nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle,
 nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are) of the People of the Book,
until they pay the Jizya with willing submission,
and feel themselves subdued. (…)"
G:- IF THIS IS NOT VIOLENT IMPOSITION OF A BELIEF
I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS!

A religion that preaches hate and violence (towards unbelievers),
and converts through violence and blood-shed instead of wisdom,
is like the vampire who sucks your blood and kills your spirit,
to make you a bloody criminal in name of the Holy Spirit.

IF ALLAH OF THE KORAN IS ALL POWERFUL,
WHY DOES HE NOT GIVE WISDOM TO PEOPLE
INSTEAD OF MAKING WAR AGAINST THEM?

 DOES HE LOVE TORTURE AND BLOOD BATHS?
THEN WHY DOES THE ALLAH OF THE KORAN
NOT DO THE DIRTY JOB BY HIS OWN HANDS? I WILL NOT!


 And if such a belief says a man is superior to a woman,
one can ask: Superior in what? In murdering? 


 

Stoned to death  

Is this the Justice of the kindest man you say you know, the right of men to lapidate a woman
for doing just what they justify themselves in doing?
(having more than one sexual mate?)
 

A
God who could send someone to eternal hell

instead of opening his heart and teaching him, is an impotent God.
 
The God or anyone who demands unquestioning obedience in a crime
is not the God of love and understanding and light.
 
A God or anyone who could ask you to murder your own son because he said so,
is the father of all slavery, of all tyranny and all criminality.
 
A man who can stone his woman never really loved her,
A man who can hate or beat or kill his wife out of jealousy, never really deserved her.
 Much more true if he allows himself to have more than one, five or a harem of women.


Neither you nor I, nor a prophet nor a God
 are worthy without love.
 

letter to Premier of Belgium,
explaining this philosophic project:

 
Dear premier Verhofstadt,
 
once I wrote to President Bush that the best war on terror is a good question.
Violence is a stupid argument or way to convert anyone.

This is what I also say to the adepts of the Islam.

Let me offer you a part of a dialogue with a Turk in Gent which I published on my website.

 This is the confrontation between a spiritual notion of love and the justice in a relationship
and the notion of the Islam that came through and during this dialogue.
My first language is Portuguese.
In spite the fact that I have not let revise the texts by an English teacher yet,
my understanding of this conflict is crystal clear.
 
If Muslim terrorists could understand what I want to say
and were sincere, the problem would be solved!

 
Best wishes, van Chapman

 

Integral
Dialogue with Erci
 from 17 January 2005 up to
7 January 2008

 

in the window below:
 
PROJECT 
Philosophic Community project



Extracts of an attempt of a dialogue in English  between
Geraldine ( van Chapman ) and a simpathic Turkish young man in Gent
 (whose English is even more broken than mine).


I will call this young man "Erci" until I have his permission to give
his real name.
*

 

 

in the window below

 

 

 

Extracts dialogue with Erci

 

 

All glory to God only if we understand that God is Love.

 

 

When a prophet, Moses or Mohamed orders someone to be stoned alive

 for loving someone above his rules, I do not trust one hair on his head.
There is no choice for a Muslim, no freedom to chose for his consciousness

 of the one who is most just, because he must believe or he is threatened to be killed.

So is the Islam. So was the religion of Moses.
I told before in our dialogue you about the barbaric practices in the old testament which Jesus,

in the new testament has changed to more compassionate and more humane ones, while your prophet

 kept himself to the barbaric laws of an eye (or many eyes) for an eye...Unbelievers could be tortured

alive or massacrated. I n that, they both were worse than the Beast they called the Devil.


So, Jesus was infinitely superior to Mohamed, though I see also in the teachings of Jesus serious contradictions.
Jesus did not condemn the woman who he saved from being stoned for adultery .
But an incoherence of Jesus was ever to have praised the belief of Moses
and the prophets of an eye for an eye, with whom he disagreed, through the light of love.
And to say one may not swear, but if one marries one does not sin.
One must promise never to leave the partner for another in a Christian Marriage.
Marriage is an institution. Love has not to do with it.
One couple can be married and not love each other, one couple might be not married but love each other.
What matters is love. Love is God, said the same Biblical Jesus.
So what he said that if one marries one does not sin is Jewish law
 from the old testament which made no more sense if Love is God.
 
No Believer dares to be sincere and see this contradiction for fear of God and hell if he is a Christian,
or fear of hell and actually being being murdered as an infidel by the followers of Moses or Mohammed.
 
 
If the prophets and their religions and their God are not reasonable,
and when even my closest love and friends rather leave me to being humble and sincere,
 who can I still call my true friend, my sincere love or lover?
Still I trust the spirit of love, the only one I call Holy Spirit.
van Chapman

There  a question you never answered me:*
 (If you say that a particular book is the word of God),
do you say that because you have read all and agree
with all that is written finding all very just,
or because you would agree with anything
just because it is written in a so called Holy book?

G:- RETALIATION IS THE OLD LAW OF AN EYE FOR AN EYE
'THAT MAKES THE WORLD BLIND.'.
 
 - HERE IT IS CLEAR THAT THE MENTALITY 
OF MOHAMMED 'S GOD DID NOT EVOLVE
FROM THAT OF THE OLD TESTAMENT,
IN TERMS OF LOVING, AS JESUS EVOLVED.


The butcher Jehovah liked the smell of freshly shed blood and burning flesh of slaughter !
This is only the carnivore instinct not God.
  
 1The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 Command the Israelites,
  and say to them: My offering, the food for my offerings by fire, my pleasing odour,
  you shall take care to offer to me at its appointed time. 3 And you shall say to them;
 This is the offering by fire that you shall offer to the Lord: two male lambs a year old
 without blemish, daily, as a regular offering. 4 One lamb you shall offer in the morning,
 and the other lamb you shall offer at twilight...

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace
 unto it.11. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee,
then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee,
 and they shall serve thee.
12. And if it will make no peace with thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
13. And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male
thereof with the edge of the sword: 14. But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle,
and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself;
and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.....
16. But of the cities of these people, which the LOrd thy
God doth gave thee for an inheritances, thou shalt save alive nothing that breathed.
17. But thou shalt utterly destroy them....(etc...)

ALMOST EVERY DAY NOW IN THE NEWS,
WE SEE MUSLIMS MASSACRING BROTHER MUSLIMS
BECAUSE OF DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OR
CONTRADICTIONS OF THE KORAN.
 
IN FACT YOU CREATE TO YOURSELF
THE HELL OR PARADISE YOU CREATE FOR OTHERS.
 

 

11  March 2005 
 
G:- DEAR ERCI, THIS IS A SHORT ONE,
 
 -For a prophet or the followers of this prophet 
to punish an apostate, an unbeliever, with death penalty,
is like cutting someone’s head off, for not understanding what we say..
What is the wisdom, the patience, the compassion,
what is the justice or truth,
what is the intelligence of such belief?
  
THE FIRST CRIME IN THE BIBLE WAS COMMITTED BY A MAN CAIN,
 NOT A WOMAN.
THE FIRST MEN TO CONTRADICT THE COMMAND OF LOVE
WERE THE SAME WHO BROUGHT THE WORDS
'THOU SHALL NOT KILL'.
(MOSES AND MOHAMMED.)
 
IF YOUR HOLY BOOK TEACHES YOU 
TO MAKE WAR AGAINST YOUR OWN BROTHERS
TO KILL THEM , YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OF CAIN
NOT THE FOLLOWER OF GOD, OF LOVE. 
 

 
G:-IF ALLAH OF THE KORAN IS ALL POWERFUL,
WHY DOES HE NOT GIVE WISDOM TO PEOPLE
INSTEAD OF MAKING WAR AGAINST THEM?
· xxxii.32 If We had so willed, We could have given every soul its guidance,
· but now My Word is realised -'I shall fill Hell with jinn and men together.'
(Contradictions in the Koran: FROM THE WEB SITE ISIS)

 


 
 G:-(??????) DOES YOUR GOD ALLAH  LOVE TORTURE AND BLOOD BATHS?  (??????)
The God of the Incas probably asked  for their hearts, their love
.-What did the stupid believers do in the temples of the Incas?
Killed people, cut the hearts out and offered them to the God….
(The God of the Old Testament, asking for offerings,
liked  the smell of blood!: Numeri 28.2-

 

G:-The whole America and the World were shocked and scandalized
at the abuses of  war prisoners in Iraq by some real idiots.
 What Mohammed in the Koran did with prisoners does not scandalise you?
It is incomparably worse than the work of those idiots.
It is truly barbaric and devilish, only comparable to the racist
mass murderer madness of Hitler.
Is the Koran  the voice of  love, of God?
 
69:30 "Seize ye him, and bind ye him,
69:31 "And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire.
69:32 "Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits!
69:36 "Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds,
 The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle,
 and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution,
or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite side (etc)...
 extract (from a letter of free thinkers and humanists of Islamic origin.)
 
 
 And if you find it still that He is Word of the God of love,
 I do not know where you have your head !!! 
 
  If you, after this dialogue mean both,
that God is Love and the book of Mohamed is the Word of God,
 you speak with a double tong of the snake.
 
If you agree with me that God is Love,
you must admit that you were
mistaken in saying that all what is written
in the Koran is the word of God.
 
Be humble and brave and honest enough to admit it!
************ 


Love, America and the Islam
 
Of course it is obvious what I write. But it is because one will not see or say the obvious
that there is war, in other words, it is because there is deceit or self deceit,
that human relationships can be hopelessly violent and cruel.

It is perhaps because we do not want to see the evident in our own personalities,
our own holy national or religious traditions, that conflicts become endless, like the one in Iraq.

Love says: -Do not do to others what you would not have done to yourself.
Where finger pointing may only be one way, from the man to the woman, from the master to the disciple

there is no true relationship; (one is actually doing to another what one would not be done to oneself.)
In a true relationship a sincere critic is received without anger or violence.
(Let us be true to ourselves, is that how we take a criticism?) If a judgement is unfounded,
one can explain oneself, not cut off the head of the other for it.
If well founded, one can learn and evolve from it.

Whole America and the world was scandalized at the abuse of prisoners in Iraq
by some American military idiots. And there are still idiots like them walking around
with uniforms, in all armies, with some officials trying to cover it up.

Muslims had the right to be scandalized by it. But are Muslims not shocked
at what Mohammed himself prescribed against war prisoners?
Many are, but do not dare to say it, I have the impression.

Much worse than the abuse of war prisoners in Iraq or in Guantanamo prison
is part of the Islamic Constitution, in the Koran, in the barbaric medieval
war practices of Mohamed, that may nor be seen nor criticized in the Islam.
(as if barbarism can ever be just or Holy).
Does each one find oneself a hero in doing just what one condemns another for?
Just that or even worse?
In America, however wrong presidents may act, citizens are allowed free thinking and speaking,
even to criticize their governments.
Does the Islam consider any sincere critic to itself?
Or does the Islam promote bloody wars against its opponents but condemns dialogue?
Is the Islam afraid of reason? Afraid to lose the battle in the level of intelligence?

Who does not consider criticism does not evolve.
If the Islam refuses honest objections to it will remain forever in the middle ages.

In a 'Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Free thinkers and Humanists of Muslim
Origins' (published in: www.naturestudio.net / letter from humanists),
one reads that Mohamed ordered to kill a poet just for writing with irony about him.

This is common in ego-cantered relationships between humans, as in dictatorships:
-to silence any critic against them, to promote authority and obedience,
to silence self- awareness and understanding.
 
Americans are afraid of the proliferation of atomic bombs in other countries.
But are Americans not scandalized that the defence of their country not only produces
but has even used weapons of mass murder?
 
Does each side justify in itself what it blames the other to do?

***

 

 

 your friend in love of truth

 

 


To ask for understanding
is a higher form of relationship than to ask for blind obedience.

Authorities, presidents, prophets, fathers, priests, take confession from others,
but do they confess their faults to the people?

Obedience is very important for the new pope Benedictus, I hear in the news.
Obedience to whom? To the Holy Catholic Church? Who is holy?

We must not forget the Church has committed many crimes against humanity,
by acting like fundamentalist terrorists in the time of the Crusades and Inquisition.
Was it not a sin, then , obedience to the Church?

Is it not a sin at any time, to obey terrorists and torture and kill people?
Is it not a crime to obey idiots, even those in military uniforms,
even the presidents or prophets if they order you to commit a crime
against your fellow humans, against any conscious being?
Love submits to no one, but to love alone.
.
People who find themselves virtuous in possession of power,
will try to convince you that it is a virtue for you to obey them.
Let us hope that is not the case with the new Pope, with the new leaders of men.
 

Nationalism is often to be kind to nationals, but not to foreigners.
Religious fundamentalism is to be kind to believers, but not to unbelievers.

How can it be a religion of truth, one which says God only guides the just,
not the unjust? It is the unjust that are lost and need guidance.

Love is patient to explain to those who do not understand it.
If we could only love the just and the perfect person,
 there might never be anyone to love.

Religions must rise above the limitations of its prophets
to join the spiritual community of the whole world,
as countries must surmount the narrowness of their nationalism,
uniting with all the nations of the world, in a spirit of love,
of intelligent dialogue, not war.


As individuals, we must grow out of the greed for power,
through the love of justice.


And is only just that we love each other.

 

Anno 1899

Churchill on Islam . ‘No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.’

Since politicians and neocons like to make themselves seem strong when responding to Muslim terrorism by joining themselves to the ghost of Winston Churchill, it would be appropriate to see what Churchill himself thought about Islam. This is from his 1899 book, The River War, written when he was 24 years old:

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.¿A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities ... but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.
[The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pp. 248-50.]



***************************


van Chapman Philosophic Community project

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 Iris flower essence - Photo van Chapman

LOVE IS ONE, BELIEFS ARE MANY.

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